So you're the one who did it! And here I was thinking Slava was the responsible party. I'll talk to Otto to see about getting you 30 lashes with a wet noodle!

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Best Regards,
JW

Oh sure, blame it on the Russkie

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Well, now that we have another in the house, we can spread the blame around more.

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Best Regards,
JW

Originally Posted by Roddoss72

Quote:

Damn straight they (Roosevelt US President, Churchill British Prime Minister and Curtin Australian Prime Minister) knew it was coming and did almost nothing to prevent it, the only thing they did was to evacuate the aircraft carriers outta there on some conveluted exercise. As i said the attack was allowed to proceed to get direct US involvement in WW2, if that had not taken place then the US would have sat on their hands and did nothing, you know it.

So by your logic, it's damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we didin't come into the war, we were sitting on our hands doing nothing (to paraphrase) and if we do, you accuse us of meddling, which we seem to have done ever since.

Or is it we should only come out when we're needed and when the crisis is over, get back in our dog house and wait until we are called again and given our marching orders?

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Best Regards,
JW

As to the allegation the Roosevelt knew of the possibility of an air attack against Pearl Harbor prior to its happening is true. A brief written by two officers (don’t have names here at work) details out how carriers could have attacked Pearl Harbor, it mimics how the Japanese did it closely. Too bad that this was in 1940 and in fact the defense of Hawaii was set up with this in mind. Now Roosevelt had no idea that the Japanese were planning this. If you think he knew, what evidence makes you think that? The winds code was never sent, the grid code was thought irrelevant, and no transmissions were ever sent from the fleet or any other IJN ship prior to the attack. The USN thought the carriers were in Japan.

As stated earlier, if the Japanese carriers had been found on their approach to PH, that in itself would have been an act of war. If Roosevelt had wanted war his battle fleet would have been waiting or them, annihilated them and ended Japan in mere months. This is why Yamamoto came up with the idea, to buy time to start the fight, even with no hope of winning. Read “At Dawn we Slept” if you are interested in this subject.

If according to lwd the US had sent men through China to fight Russia would they have stopped to finish the communists there?

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The Muslim Brotherhood “must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands..." — Mohamed Akram. http://jihadwatch.org/

See my other what if thread for my reply What if I didnt reply in the thread where these are from

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The Muslim Brotherhood “must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands..." — Mohamed Akram. http://jihadwatch.org/

A suggestion: Seeing as how this Red Star - White Star war topic seems rather popular, maybe we could do a simulation with discussion on it in somewhat more detail; see where it goes rather than keep making generalized arguments pro and con.

Popular? In the sense that quasi-flame wars are popular?

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Simulation... what did you have in mind. I suggested to Slonik that we play a game of Command and Conquer Red Alert as it deals with this subject.

Quasi-Flame wars... does anyone not like fire? That is why they seem popular.

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The Muslim Brotherhood “must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands..." — Mohamed Akram. http://jihadwatch.org/

The only thing I would take for granted in this crystal ball alternate divination contest, is that USA would have used nukes.

Considering the reasons Truman gave to explain why Hiroshima and Nagasaki, (shorten a agony of war and saving the lives of thousands young Americans), I don't see USA withstanding, to say the least, protracted eastern-front style lossrate without using the big bombs.

As per guessing if the Tiger III equipped Germano-Commonwealth troops would or would not have beat the Sino-Sovietic army in Eastern Prussia, I can't tell

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Children of rape and incest must live, their fathers must fry on the electric chair.
21st century FTW !

Have I ever shown you this?

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poor beast

Attached Images

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Children of rape and incest must live, their fathers must fry on the electric chair.
21st century FTW !

So, I take it that Za has something against Democrats thumping on them like that.....

No i meant that it was way to convenient for the U.S to stand by its neutrality act and wait around until you were attacked first and what of the neutrality act that you hid behind, what would have happened at the last possible minute Japan had cancelled its PH mission and did nothing to America but decided to attack Malaya instead a British possesion or Australia, would America have declared war on Japan, no it would not, it would have sat back and allowed Japan to reign supreme in the Pacific, just as you did with Germany in Europe, i'll grant you you one if Japan or Germany had done nothing to you you would have done nothing, Isolationist America (circa 1939-41) was not prepared to get its hands dirty for democracy, but will do it now for oil in the middle east.

Whew, that is one long, run-on sentence and I am still not sure what you are trying to say. What I can glean from your super-duper compound run-on sentence is that in 1941, the US was obligated to get into a war without being attacked and we aren't now, although we have been attacked? Interesting concept.

You still haven't defended your contention that the United States government and other allied governments knew that the Empire of Japan would attack Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th 1941 at 0750 hrs.

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Best Regards,
JW

The US would not have used nuclear weapons in any continuation war, because of the morality of using such weapons AGAIN, just after destroying 2 Japanese cities in WW2. World outrage would have made the US the pariah country of the world, and US leaders have always understood this reality.

Any continuation war would of had to of been waged conventionally, which the US was certainly capable of doing.

Note: Nuclear weapons were not used in both protracted wars in Korea and Vietnam just because of this very reason.

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"Who will save your soul, if you won't save your own." - Jewel

No. There was no world outrage at the time. The US would have had no problem using additional atomic bombs and by 46 would have been manufacturing at least 1 per month.

Korea was another question. Note that Mac wanted very much to use them. Truman however wanted to contain the war to the Korean peninsula and the knowledge that the Soviets also had them introduced a further constraint on their use.

Correct, no world outrage at the use of atomic weapons against Japan; a vicious enemy from the get-go. However, turning such weapons against a recent Ally in the fight against the Axis would have been something altogether different. From that point on (nukes used) every country on earth would have felt intimidated by every move the US made.

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"Who will save your soul, if you won't save your own." - Jewel