Roddoss,

I would love to see any of these records. As by the end of the war, other then kids or the elderly and its own POW's scattered all over Europe, Germany had no men. Are these the 8 million that you are referring to?

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Hmm, certainly you should rephrase it to "...it was however still dead". The last nail in the Luftwaffe's coffin had been Hitler's decision to enact Op. Bodenplatte, the massacre of the fighter force Galland had ammassed in a large and useless raid against the allied airfields at the time of the Battle of the bulge. After that, "kein mehr Luftwaffe".

As for the 8 million, probably, but it were 8 millions completely exhausted, torn to shreds (I used the word knackered elsewhere), made up of too young or too old conscripts, those who up too know had been kept from military service in industry, etc. The manpower sources were exhausted, after the war it took several years for the Bundesheer to be able to recruit from age classes that been untouched by the war.

Also there were the Luftwaffe and Navy ground troops. This was ridiculous. Instead of picking up their unused or left over personnel and handing them to the army for retraining and use as recompletments, no sir, they gave the erks a rifle and panzerfaust and off to the Oder you go. What a waste!

95 divisions spread from the tip of Hokkaido to the Burma jungles? From Sinkiang to a nameless remote island in the Pacific? The same starving army whose untouched cream had just been butchered in Manchuria and Korea by the Soviet Operation August Storm? Whose home base had been firebombed into the stoneage?

Come off it, leave the poor Soviet Union alone, they had problems enough with sorting out their reconstruction. The Allies (USA, United Kingdom, all the Nations in the Commonwealth, France, Soviet Union, Italy, Brasil, etc.) all fought the same war to defeat the Axis and went on to form the United Nations. That's the truth of it. All the rest we see here is a couple of guys with a thorn stuck in their ass. Get over it, buy a German Shepherd and call it Blondi if you like.

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Bah!

And what if in the end, the German uber fighters joined us superior westerners in the fight against these dirty commies, so Nazis would historicaly turn out to be nice guys, which would allow me, at last, to parade in the street with my fetish WWII wermacht uniform I cherish so much, without feeling uncomfortable ?

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Police cars carry three agents. The first one can read, the second one can write and the third one keeps watch on those dangerous intellectuals.
Unknown subversive activist - 20th century.

Substitute a French flag and you're it!

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Bah!

I haven't got a picture at hand, but don't worry we've got the same here

Ah but public displaying of the nazi cross it outlawed here !

That's the reason why I must hide my svastika ornated collection of plates, dishes and cuckoo clocks :'(

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Police cars carry three agents. The first one can read, the second one can write and the third one keeps watch on those dangerous intellectuals.
Unknown subversive activist - 20th century.

Gents, you're forgetting the Strangelove/Bell Industries Centuritiger:

It's just so obvious that the entirely deranged and illegal path to attacking the Soviet Allies would spawn such glorious Wunderwaffe, (guaranteed to last at least 1000 years).

After all, just ask the average 1945 'man in the street'; 6 wonderful years of war, bombed out house, Cousin Tommy/Chuck/Fritz killed in action, Grannies head found in the street when that ammo store blew up, rationed food, nuclear weapons, utterly ruined general political/economic/social environment, concentration camp revelations, etc. etc.... Of course he'd want another pointless extension to world shattering war... who wouldn't?

Cheers, (with apologies)
Adam.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

Sorry but , not all or even the majority of the caputured Wehrmacht and SS forces were 16 yr old kids or pentioners. the vast majority were seasoned veterans of all the major Axis campaigns. I think the yrs it took to reform the Bundeswher was more due Allied reluctance to forming a German national army ,not that the Germans didn't have the man power needed for it. so if the ailles were inclined to use them .There would have been many divisions worth of manpower the Wehrmacht could have provided for a rematch with the soviets.

Tell you what, what if the Germans and Russians decided in the end to say it had all been a big misunderstanding, and the German-Soviet pact was still in force. Then it would be a great idea to gather together the Red Army all all the giant armies Germany still had left on the East Front and throw the Capitalists over the sea!

Why not, after all? It sounds perfectly logical doesn't it? At least as logical as the former premise, isn't it?

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Bah!

Better yet, what if everyone in the World had gotten together and conquered the USA?

No Rock N Roll, no Bush, and world communism...

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"Well, I don't believe that climate change is just an issue that's convenient to bring up during a campaign. I believe it's one of the greatest moral challenges of our generation."
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/
Barack Obama

I'm guessing the Chuck is the US counterpart. Now VP, you know we prefer "Joe."

Here's another lesson in Southern English for all you Limeys.
We can use the slang word "chunk" in a different way, meaning 'to throw', as in, "Hey Bubba, chunk at air tar arn ova he-uh t' me, I'ma needin' to take off these here lug nuts."
translated
"Brother, would you please be so kind as to toss the tire iron gently to me? I have lugs nuts that I need to loosen."


Ya killlin' me.

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

Just got this info .

TABLE XXX ECONOMIC AND MILITARY USE OF THE GERMAN MALE POPULATION BY THE END OF 1944

OF WHOM IN
GROUP AGE (44) TOTAL EMPLOYED MILITARY SERVICE

70-78 66-74 2,120,000 391,000 (18.4%) -
79-83 61-65 1,612,000 1,006,000 (62.4%) -
84-93 51-60 3,900,000 3,444,000 (88%) 118,000 (3%)
94-00 44-50 3,633,000 3,437,000 (94.6%) 702,000 (19.3%)
01-05 39-43 3,351,000 3,250,000 (97%) 1,247,000 (37.2%)
06-22 22-38 10,574,000 10,439,000 (98.7%) 8,222,000 (77.8%)
23-26 19-21 2,573,000 2,480,000 (96.4%) 2,405,000 (93.5%)
27 18 597,000 547,000 (91.6%) 125,000 (20.9%)
28 17 610,000 525,000 (86.1%) -
29 16 592,000 455,000 (76.9%) -
30 15 594,000 410,000 (69%) -
The 1st #s are yr born, 2nd age in44, 3rd total pop. 4th # in idus and heers ,5th # in Heers . This shows that there were a large group of armed forces 19 to 43 yrs old in 44. Some where close to 12 million . So there would have been plenty of seasoned vets for the allies to use against the red menace in 45

12 million in 44', how many were available in 45'?

Also, if there were so many vets, why were young boys and the elderly recruited to fend off the Soviets and Allies?

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Good data, John. Was this on web page?

Any of you guys have a good theory on why the percentages in the 51-60 range was so low, when the groups either side were substantially higher? Look at the 61-65 group, dang near a two-thirds of them.

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

Pretty figures, what this also means is that Germany was already bled white for manpower for production - industry, agriculture and administration, and after the allied victory there would not be any more slaves - POWs and concentration camp inmates - to work. Unless another of your pretty measures in order to keep a bloated military would be to keep the slaves in place. Eisenhower for one would love that.

And what red menace? Who had started 2 world wars? Think before you spurt.

Wake up. History once done can not be unravelled. And the communists are gone for some twenty years now, no need to live in a permanent dream. If you want communists go and invade Cuba.

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Bah!

Why do people hate Russia?

My friend it really depends on who you ask. Usually they are the paranoid or the uneducated ones.

There are ofcourse those who just dont like anyone who isnt like them

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Slipdigit, I can not take credit for the site. It was shown to me by a mod. on another board. Here it is . It's the Wehrersatzplan 45. There's a copy in the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv, and also at NARA and IWM. Also the" red menance "
line was a little humor. sorry.

And you are forgetting this is a "WHAT IF" and i have stated my numbers that at the time of surrender the German Army still had over 8 million men on the ground still armed to the teeth this does not include the Luftwaffes 21 field divisions and the Kriegsmarine 4 field division, also i have records on the American 8th Airforce which indicates that the Luftwaffe from mid 1944 to April 1945 was shooting down on average of 30 to 40 medium to heavy bombers a day. And one last point was it not that the Soviet Union launched an attack on Poland in conjunction with Germany or are all those history books lying. Get over it.

I agree with Za, but I always wonder why you think it is your duty to smash these 'What If?' scenarios. The What If? section is designed for dreams, even ones where (heaven forbid) the Soviets lose! Why not let the "alternate historians" have their day?

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