Here's another one for u guys what if HITLER never launched operation Barbarossa and never would off invaded the Soviet Union what do u think would off happend and how do u think this might of changed the war???

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Well, he probably wouldn't have started WWII in the first place and therefore this forum wouldn't exist.....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Then Russia would send everything. Tanks, Bombers, soldiers and everything towards europe and fight the Germans everywhere in Europe. And If the Allied Forces come during D-Day, more Germans will decrease so the war will end early 1945.

Martin...

not sure if im following u

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

P5

can u explain urself 1 more time but a little clearer not sure i understand what u mean

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

This "What If?" thread is not in the right Forum. Moved to the What If? Forum.

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"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." Socrates

Most likely we would see a Cold War between Gemany and the SU, with an armistice in the West. Germany would maintain the status quo, occupying the conquered countries, administering an enourmous Gross Deutschland.

At some point it is likely this cold war would become hot due to the impossibility to keep the hotheads and the feudal lords in place, the hottest head being Mr. Impredictability himself, Adolf.

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This is a very big what if, after all back in the 1920's when Hitler wrote his book Mein Kampf he saw Russia as the land to take for the German People. By that stage of Hitler's life it was a pipe dream, on coming to power in the 1930's that dream was starting to come possible. Very Hard to see Hitler not attacking, after the success in the west in 1940 old AH had the itch to turn east.

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If he did not attack then AH would also "forget" his idea of Lebensraum which definitely was one of the center ideas in his talks and writings.

Then again Stalin would have launched his offensive once his army was strong enough, maybe 1943 at the latest.

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Richard,

keep in mind that Hitler also considered the English as potential allies. The English fit the whit suprem race theory perfectly. And he went to war with them anyway. At Hitlers downfall he also said that " had i known the amount of tanks Russia had, i would of thought twice about invading".

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Kai i agree with the ur theory of Stalin attacking.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Why?

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Hitler regarded the British as second class citizens and tried to buy England off by supplying them with three divisions of Fallschirm. Hitler's invasion of Poland forced Great Britain and France to declare war on Germany, Hitler's attack on Poland was two fold the extermination of the Poles and Jews and to give the Germany army access to Russia in 1941.

As for Hitler's remark you got that wrong to a degree, the remark was made in 1941 sometime in July-September when Hitler had a private meeting with Marshal Mannerheim on a train. I have seen the film footage that was made by Mannerheim assistants.

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AH, admitting that he made a mistake?!?!?!

I never heard such a thing!

Why do you think Stalin would launch his own offensive? Cause of Britain's pressure to do so?

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Facta non verba. "Deeds, not words"

Just how many would actually believe there would be no conflict between the USSR and nazi Germany?

Both were armed to the teeth Hitler looking in the east and Stalin definitely looking towards west and east ( Europe and Asia ).

In the first place Stalin expected a long war in the west after which Germany would be easy to conquer. That would take some years.

After the Germans won fast in 1940 in the west Stalin was aware Hitler would invade sooner or later but was convinced Hitler was not that stupid to attack so late in summer in 1941 because the winter might come too early for the operation to finish successfully for Hitler. Hitler was possessed with the 8 weeks´ war and did not consider the winter as a threat because war would be over by then.

For both the Germans and the USSR both knew the other one was getting stronger all the time. I think it can be said that both were preparing for an attack to beat the enemy before it was too strong. Germans actually did attack at "the right time" but could not win. By 1942 there would be another 3,000-4,000 T-34´s waiting.

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Good point Kai i once again agree... to a point.

It is now being said ( at least in Russia and the europe ) that Stalins big plan was to stand and watch as germany would fight and wear out in europe eventually bringing the U.S. into the conflict and after the 2 went at it. Stalin would go in and take both........ Dont know how credible the source is but its not news that Stalin wanted to go to war with Hitler. Hitler just beat him to the punch.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

But going back to my topic i think that if Hitler hadnt invaded SU, well then England would off fallen and once that happended Spain would join the axis power as well......at least thats what spain said. With a German Europe the united states would have no where to land except through africa..... At least thats what i think.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Germany lacked sea power. Without sea power Germany cannot take England. End of story.

Operation Sealion issue is closed, military experts today made a study of the military academy Sandhurst re-enactment in 1974 with veterans from England and Germany and those who were part of the planning of Sealion. Sealion would have ended in a military defeat for Germany, the invasion area Dover the Germans would have only got 18 to 20 miles in land and after a week of fighting forced to withdraw.

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I agree on T.A.´s and Richard´s views. Britain survives but also that the US don´t intervene once the situation stays "calm" in Europe.

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I dont know guys. yes the English had a fantastic navy but had almost no airforce in fact the only reason the airforce survived was becuase Hitler started bombing cities. In theory Germany didnt need to invade they just needed to starve Britain into submission and this would off been possible with the u boats, and more then 5 thousand planes to bomb the navy if he hadnt launched Barbarossa.

In fact Richard


The day Barbarossa was lauched Churchill clapped his hands and told his cabinet......" England is saved Hitler has just invaded Russia and lost the war!"

But who knows........what if's dont really mean much so i guess we could all go back and forth.
But i respect everybodies opinion, they are all excellent point!!!

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

To starve Britain I suppose Dönitz would have needed more U-boats which Raeder/Hitler were not willing to give.

Also Ultra was getting better and faster on the German military actions and could tell where the U-boats were and could direct the convoys away from the wolfpacks.

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Don’t forget Kai, the U-Boats enigma codes were harder to crack more so when they introduced the five drum settings.


Hitler made one big error in 1940 that was to cut back on scientific research, at that time Germany was ahead of the world. The result of this decision allowed the Allies to catch up and surpass Germany.

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i couldnt agree more Richard!!!!

In fact Hitler didnt want to spend money on research which wouldnt give him results in 6 months. He thought that conventional weapons would do the job.

Also Kai,

Hitler wouldnt give Donitz more u- boats is cause he needed the money, man power and idustrial capabilities for the easter front that he had opened up.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

No he didn't, He never said anything of the sort.
It was only after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, that he wrote " That night I slept the sleep of the saved"

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