If America had not entered the war? And Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor

If america had maintained its neturally how would the war ended?

This thread belongs in the "what if?" section, but I'll state my opinion. I think the germans would still have lost, even though it would've taken a lot longer. I think the war was basically lost for the germans by 1942, when they were starting to run out of oil and the russians finally got their act together. The allies could, and in my opinion would have won the war without the americans, but not necessarily without their lend-lease help...

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"There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people"
-Heinz Guderian

Lord is right this should be in the " what if " thread something tells me that Otto might come down here and move it.

But all said and done my answer is yes. The day the Germans entered Russia is the day they lost the war. Most historians now argue that the war would have probably lasted and additional year or two with more causalties. The end however would have still been the same. The only major difference is that Europed would have been under communist rule ( not a good thing ) if the U.S. had not been there.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

my opinion
x:German arm production - loss
y:Russian arm production - loss


if x>y No Russian victory
if x<y No German victory
if x=y HELL

The Eastern Front would have gone on longer but in the end Russia would still had won.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

First off, presume that Attack on Pearl Harbor never took place, this does not mean the US would not have have entered WWII.

One reason why there has been a persistance charge that FDR et al had been conspiring on the morning of 7 Dec. was because there is evidence that that there was a conspiracy to get the US into the war through the back door of a causis belli with Japan -- just that this conspiracy did not involve Pearl harbor in and fashion. No, that attack came as a complete surprize.

The FDR conspiracy involved in creating an artificial causis belli but having the IJN obliging the US by sinking an "American Flagged" vessel. It was though the main IJN fleet was steaming south toward Indochina, so the plan was to lease three (3) fishing trawlers in the vicinity of Manila Bay, put a US Officer (ensign) and an US flag (another type of ensign) on these ships, then sail them such to encounter the IJN fleet and draw fire.

Alas, the IJN fleet was not steaming south past the port of Manila. As it turned out one sent sail leaving the harbor, another was just getting underway, and the last never got organized when the "Air Raid -- Pearl Harbor. This is no drill." message was recieved, scuttling the plan.

Hadn't heard that particualr conspiracy Historian, pretty interesting though.

All the same, somehow I find it difficult to believe that even without the impact of the allies in the West, Germany could have beaten Russia. I agree with Richard Overy who seems to claim that the war in the east was won by late 1943 and that the only real allied contribution to this was the bomber war (which diverted large amounts of German production to AAA and kept the Luftwaffe focused in the West). However, I reckon even without this, the USSR might have pushed their way to Berlin, albeit maybe around 2007.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.