Hi all, I just registered today to ask this question to the general community. What if we helped Chinese nationalist defeat the Chinese Communist after WW2

sorry for double post, i forgot to mention other things. If the Chinese Communist were defeated would the we have had Korea, the US Vietnam, etc. How much would the world have changed?

When you say we I am going to assume that you mean the U.S.

If this is the case then I'm going to go on a lim here and say that, thats a pretty big " if ".

Was it possible? maybe
Probable? no

U.S. was already fighting a 2 front war and sending supplies to countries like Britain and Russia. I just dont see how U.S. would be able to help theh Chinese with their hands full.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

As I recall, the US did support Chaing Kai Shek's Nationalists with military aid before, during, and after WW 2 just as the Soviet Union supported Mao's Communist segiment. The problem, and reason, that the Nationalist government fell to the Communists was simply that Chaing Kai Shek's military and political leadership and the orgainzation of the Nationalists was thoroughly bad. Chaing used money, material, and manpower as reward or punishment for individual division commanders who operated as semi-automous warlords and who were as frequently at each other's throats as they were fighting the Communists. Mao presented an orgainzed and solid front with a clear objective.
Without direct US intervention in the form of advisors and military leadership the Nationalist Chinese army was doomed regardless of the level of material support they received. During WW 2 only the Chinese units directly under the control of General Stillwell that had such presence proved really capable in the field. Why should this change post war?

Soviet Russia would not have allowed the U.S. to install bases at the Mongolian borders during the cold war. China is too big, it would have been a mega Vietnam and could have involved Russia too. Besides the Russians were already in Manchouria.

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thanks all for your insight, I appreciate it.

I also read a book (The Burmese Road or something like that) about the situation in China during WWII. The Communists and Nationalists allied together to fight the Japanese, but were terribly unequipped. Part of the problem was that the 'Leaders' of each party (esp the Nationalist...'Generalissimo' as his nickname was) were too afraid of their own warlords to equip them with the weapons for fear of them turning on each other.

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true. The Japanese were hated by both camps and were seen as invaders. Once the Japanese quit, the Chinese had no more armies to fight except each other, unless an other invader may provide them a pretext to unite again... I don't think that the Nationalists would have rejected help from the West, but I doubt they would have welcomed a permanent occupation of China which would remind them of the Boxer War.

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China not being Communist would have made things very interesting. Imagine us having to worry not only about staring the Soviets down in Europe but also sharing borders with the Soviets and the Soviet-backed People’s Republic of Mongolia in Asia.

After WWII you had the Soviets accepting the surrender of the Japanese north of the 38th parallel in Korea and the Americans to the south of the 38th. This occupation was only meant to be temporary and Korea was to be reunited but it didn't work out that way. In the North they set up a pro-Soviet communist government and you had the South set up a pro-American democratic government. So there still would have been a Korean War, no question. But, the Korean peninsula would be one united, democratic nation today if China wasn’t communist because the North would have had no one to intervene for them once we pushed them up to the Yalu River.

When the Communists took over China, Mao provided the Viet Minh with the military assistance and supplies needed to fight off the French in The First Indochina War. Now if the French had won in the First Indochina War, there would have been no Second Indochina War. But could the Viet Minh have defeated the French without help from the Chi-Coms? I would have to say that they most likely they would have defeated the French anyway but I guess that’s another “What If” for a different day.

Now without fear of Chinese intervention, I’d say the Vietnam War would have been run a lot differently. We might have just swept right through Laos and Cambodia, crossed the DMZ and invaded North Vietnam or possibly launched an invasion into North Vietnam from China. But this might have possibly triggered a Soviet invasion of West Berlin and Western Europe.

I believe the Vietnamese would have won the first IndoChina war anyway (vs the French or anybody else) . The Communist thing was just a "tag" for them as they wanted to get rid of any colonial power. Their determination was too strong, almost fanatic. They would probably have received more weapons from Russia instead.

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I think there is a major point here which is being missed. During WWII the USA supported BOTH the 'National' and the 'Communist' factions in China. Indeed, the OSS (in the form of Donovan himself) and many other Americans favored the leadership of Mao over the leadership of Chaing Kai-Chek.

There is a good book: "A Different Kind of War" by Admiral Miles which discusses this factional friction. Miles represented the US Navy & Marine perspective -- that of cooperating with the Chinese, giving advice & matrial support but realize the coountry is theirs not ours, and so most of the decisions & fighting should be theirs.

The US Army perspective under Stillwell and Chenault apears to have been a policy of having to show the Chinese how to fight. This is evidenced by Stillwell requiring a 2000 man HQ which required very heavy logistical support (eating only "American" food, which had to be brought over the Burma Road from India.

The American faction supporting Mao seemed to never trust the Nationalists. At one point a large cashe of stores and mutition in support of the 14th USAAF stationed in China were in danger of being captured by the Japanese , but were remove to a point of safety by human labor. This material allegedly was being held for the Americans. But rather than let the Nationalists safeguard the munitions the OSS decided to destroy the Ammo. It was the moral equivalent ofr shootting one'sself in the foot.

True, both sides were not trusted. This is precisely why the Allies could not have stayed in China because both factions would have turned against them and uniting the Chinese was exactly what was feared (and that eventually happened after the Nationalists were defeated )

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And how was Russia going to get the supplies there?

Well for starters, they could have just walked in like they did later in 45'.

Or carried them on their back's if Stalin ordered

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Walked in through where? They wouldn't be able to go through China. See what I'm saying.

Not sure I understand Col. Hessler.

This is a map of China

http://www.invasive.org/hwa/images/M...ll%20sites.jpg

Am I missing something? or are you referring to a form of transportation.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

I'm saying that China is in the way of Russia sending supplies to Vietnam. Now this wasn't a problem because the Chi-Coms gladly allowed the Soviets to funnel down supplies to Vietnam via China. But if China wasn't Communist like the "what-if" says this would have been a big problem.

Oh haha......My mistake I was under the impression that the talk was about how the Russians were going to get supplies to China not Vietnam..... I now see your point.

How silly of me......Sorry [img]redface.gif[/img]

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Forget about it. I should have made myself clearer in the first place.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

One option for the Russians would be to encourage the indepenedce of puppet state Manchuko after firing the Japanese. This would divide China, keep the allies away from them and give them more influence in this area.

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