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What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old September 30th, 2007, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

Well, the DH Mosquitos didn't come unstuck too often...
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old September 30th, 2007, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

The Ta 154 is something of an exception to use of wood on aircraft. By 1944 most German aircraft had a high wood content. The Me 109 often had a wooden tail assembly. Flaps and control surfaces on many aircraft were wood. Propellers were being made of wood.
But, the Ta 154 was also not a light weight low cost fighter of the sort I was suggesting.

As a general guide, the aircraft I was suggesting would be more like a slightly smaller Me 109 designed to use several different readily available engines. It would have say a 20mm and two 7.9 mm MGs for armament and be capable of carrying a small bomb or two or some small rockets. The outfitting would be as austire as possible.
Its primary use would have been as a cheap replacement in the field and in theaters where the Allied air threat was less serious. It could also be used as a ground attack aircraft phasing out such relics as the Ju 87 completely.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old September 30th, 2007, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

But, Terry, in any case as the war progressed the Germans were porducing more and more foghters of conventional materials - with more or less wooden components. So was there a real need for wooden fighetrs?
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

So according to those above Germany was not in the same league as the Allies and was totally incapable of producing a four engined heavy and all those photos of the Me-264 were a fake and it did not fly in 1942, a good twelve month before the US began operations over Europe, also that Me-277 the four engined version of the Me-177 which was in production could not be made, in fact Heinkel went onto to develop it anyway under a threat of Goring to imprison anyone who continued to work on the project, Heinkel as far as i know believe that the He-277 could have been in full production as early as late 1940 early 1941, this however meant the scrapping of the He-111 and maybe the postponement of Barbarossa.

No Germany was such a stupid nation, one wonders how they invented or produced anything, silly Germans.
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

I didn't say incapable of producing a heavy four engined bomber but rather incapable of mass producing or even series producing one in sufficent quantity to make it useful in service.
A single Me 264 was built and flown a handful of times. Junkers produced the Ju 290 at a rate of one or two a month. The He 277 is another single prototype and the He 177 had a production run of just over 1000 in about 3 years. Focke Wulf produced a few hundred Fw 200s.
At the same time, the US was producing several B-24s and B-17s an hour and England likewise was producing Lancasters, Sterlings, Halifax etc at a rate of dozens a day.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

What TAG said is to be no negative appraisal on the Luftwaffe. Instead of sending raids with 800 or 1000-bombers like the Allies did, they might send that Me 264 to the same target 800 times in succession.

The drawback is that it would be somewhat monotonous, and the crews would be bored to oblivion after the first couple hundred of missions.

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Old October 2nd, 2007, 06:54 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Hitler sacks Goring

Anouther strategy that might have worked would be to have more accurate bomb sites and better bombidiers in the German bombers and a better selection of targets. That is why we have fewer bombers today, they can hit what they want hit with fewer bombs. The USAF and RAF and Germans dropped bombs all over the place. Only the dive bombers had any luck at hitting selected targets.
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

A collection of thoughts.

1) Goring was all but out after 1940, he was only the figure head, Milch was running the show.

2) Germany had far less experiance with long range planes than any other major power. Yes they did design and build several (good planes) but even in 43 an expected production run would put out 10-20 planes a month compared to that many a day in the US or England.

3) The Ju-87 was the prefered attack plane of the Luft. even in 45. Other planes was adapted, Me-109, FW-190, Me-262, but the good pilots loved the Ju-87 even in 45.

3) The Germans held no doctrine like that of the US or Britian in regards to Stratigic Bombing.

4) Try not to be so extreme when you read other peoples posts.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikilal View Post
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd, 2007, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Hitler has to eat humble pie after his defeat at the B.O.B. and with Sea Lion now on hold Hitler decides Herman Goring must be sacked from his post as head of the Luftwaffe.
Gnaw on this!!!


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  #36 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd, 2007, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

That is a pretty good article about her. I had forgotton the movie Operation Crossbow. Seemed like a good movie but it has been years since I seen it last.
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Old October 3rd, 2007, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

It is not that Germany did any one thing wrong to lose the war. It is that they did so many things wrong. They had some excellent engineers, but poor administration and production techniques. The reality is that it was a smaller nation that took on the world using tactics that required a large amount of manpower and equipment. As long as they took on nations of equal or smaller stature, they could achieve their goals. When they took on not one but two of the largest nations, it was a doomed effort.

If German had been able to stop their advance without taking on Russia and the U.S., and had been able to keep the U.S. from supplying Britain, it would have been possible to maintain their holdings, but their economy could not sustain itself without a war footing.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd, 2007, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Hitler sacks Goring

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