Yes I know that this would never happen. I dont want to hear about how this is impossible.

Now if this had happened would the US and UK been far behind? Would Russia have been willing to fight again, or would Stalin wait untill the Allies and Germany got through and then attacked? Would an invasion of France been possible before 45? Would Japan have been target number one then bring all the force to bear upon Germany?

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"Well, I don't believe that climate change is just an issue that's convenient to bring up during a campaign. I believe it's one of the greatest moral challenges of our generation."
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/
Barack Obama

Like you said, simply impossible..... In fact, probably more on Hilters side then Stalin's at this juncture.

But..........

I would imagine that the Lend lease would cease to exist ( as minimal as it was at this time 42' ) along with any possibility of good realations with the West. Stalin would then take this opportunity to reinforce and modernize his war machine and wait it out for the rest of the world to bleed dry and then liberate eveyone by painting the European continent RED. As this was his initial plan as pointed out by many.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

This may be another ignorant question but are there written records the show Russian intent to conquer europe?

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"Well, I don't believe that climate change is just an issue that's convenient to bring up during a campaign. I believe it's one of the greatest moral challenges of our generation."
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/
Barack Obama

I've not seen any. With all the historical material published on Stalin in the last two decades, and the opening of the old Soviet archives, one would think the 'Plan To Conquor The World' would have been extensively published and picked apart by historians.

in retrospect Stalin missed his best chance in 1937. The industrial development plans were coming well along; The RKKA was large, reasonably trained, was well along in equiping with the new (for 37) tanks, had the only corps size mechanized units existant in any army, and had completed testing and intial training in a new operationl doctrine to take advantage of massed mechanized corps and armys.

In 1937 Poland had the largest army facing the USSR & it was out numbered and out gunned with no motorized or large armored formations. Germany had barely twenty combat ready divsions and its armored units were half formed and ill equipped. France's large army was configured for defense only and incapable of forming a mobile army to aid the Poles or anyone else in less than 4-5 months.

Instead of taking advantage of all this Stalin begains his "Purge" destroying the military leaders from top to bottom, castrating the party intellegenstia, and terrorising the new generation of educated and skilled technicians who had belived in the new socalist state.

By the time the purges tapered off in 1940 Stalins USSR was nearly incapable of defending itself.

Let's for the moment say this had played out, it could had been possible America would not return to Europe by negotiations between Britain and Germany. This would free up American forces to commit that 40% that would had gone to England now free to move to the Pacific.

Granted it's one of many situations that may had happened.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

Definitely NO!

This is the reaonable part. The SU economy would be in full war footing by now and it would only be a lull to regroupa and reinforce to take due revenge on those who had invadd and were still ocupying Soviet soil. 1945 made earlier.

And the non-historians, conspiracy theorists, etc, etc ad nauseam.

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Bah!

Wheather there were any transcripts of Stalin having written a grand plan to conquer and instill Communism into Western Europe is up for speculation and Carl W Schwamberger and Za Rodinu have said there were none, so i'll go along with that, but if Stalin had signed a peace treaty with Germany in 1942, Lend Lease i agree that would end. But the Soviets still have their industry and oilfields intact. And can purchase war materiel with goods and oil.

And to finish off we have a stalemate between Germany and Britain but one theatre of war becomes vital to Britain and the Axis and that is North Africa, Hitler could effectively withdraw the four divisions (1 panzer, 1 panzer-grenadier and 2 infantry) as Rommel wanted to defeat the British. If the German and Italian forces conquered North Africa and seize the Suez then it makes it more easier for the Axis to annexe the entire Med Sea.

Britain would have to seek either direct US military aid by deployment of US Forces in Britain and if the US refuse, Britain again either has to come to terms with Germany by an Armistice or Surrender, and Surrender is not an option.

That is until Stalin joins in again!

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

That is exactly what would happen, Treaties aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Not sure thats it the treaty Stalin would be concerned about.... But revenge.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Again i say Treaties aren't the paper they're written on.

Now that you started this ball rolling exactly what are the treaty terms you'd like to see?

Remember that

a) The Germans had had severe losses till now, and quite a schock during the Winter campaign

b) they were being able to reequip anyway for a Summer '42 campaign which might have got them to the Volga and the Caspian oilfields.

d) The Tiger would show up only 6 months later.

e) The Soviets were already in full production swing and creating even more factories

f) Manpower reserves were intact and gushing

g) There was a lot of Motherland in German hands

h) The population as was general knowledge was not quite happy at all with the state of things, there were a lot of common graves already.

i) There were those sattelites like Romania, Hungary, Italy, Slovakia, Finland etc who were involved as well

f) etc, etc

So exactly what peace treaty would you propose that would guarantee peace? Where would the Armistice line be?

Roddoss, how cynical, where in the world have you seen that ever happen?

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Bah!

Yep,

I guess it´d be hard to start penning a peace treaty as both sides were starting to feel they were winning the war soon.

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They'd done this in 1939 and look where it got them.

It seems that Ribentropp made some opening to soviet foreign office after the backhandblow in march 43. at this date,the situation is again a stalemate and soviet forces losts more troops than axis.
Speaking about Citadelle, Hitler talk about " a light (understanding a signal) for world". Altought the size of this offensive, there's no real strategic option following Kursk. In the case of a wondering succes during the saliant's battle, what would the wehrmacht do ? probably nothing else than to secure front line for summer and the inevitable winter's offensive. As Mansteins said in the same period, the best outing in east front is as chess, a pat. In this case some négociations will occur as it has happened.
Soviet wish reoccupe the borders obtained after the poland campaign and reparation (i'm not sur of this word, money and material "pay back"), germans won't (can't ?) answer.
this information is appear in well documented french magazine Militaria the Battle of kursk, vol1 german preparation and offensive

Ribbentrop lost his face politically ( in Hitler´s view ) in 1939 when the Western Allied declared war when according to Ribbentrop they would not dare to do so after the attack to Poland. After that Ribbentrop tried alot of things to gain his reputation back.

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Were Hitlers expectations of the Anglo/French choices based on Ribbentrops views, or did he have similar ideas of his own?

I believe one had the ideas and the other said what Mater wanted to hear. Ribbentrop was a third rate lightweight. Should have stuck to selling Seck.

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Bah!

How did Ribbentrop lose face, Hitler knew that the rammifications of his invasion of Poland. Ribbentrop was not the one that ordered the German forces into Poland that was Hitler. But even after Britain and France had declared war on Germany the only thing the French did was to send in 9 divisions into the German Saarland and then for months did nothing while Germany and the Soviet regimes tore apart Poland.

Let's suspend our disbelief and say that it's theoretically possible but higly unlikely.

The first thing I would ask is what are the terms of the peace pact?
Going by the historical character traits of Hitler and Stalin, any negotiations between the two would be really hot. Bickering would mark the talks, which I think would be long and difficult, given the two sides marked differences.

What I would conceded is that the two could agree to a cease fire in place, followed by a phased withdrawal to pre-invasion lines. When this will happen, I don't know but the likely thing would be that a cease fire would happen first.

The only missing equation is what event would trigger the two sides to begin negotiations. If we can answer this, then the proper context of having the two sides settle for a peace pact would be in place and we can speculate on what the terms would be.

And also what would Germany have to give the Soviet Union as compensation for all of the blood already spilled?

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler