I was thinking if a U-Boat convoy escorting a few troopships could have lauched an invaison in Canada's north to establish a forward base to overrun Canada's army and have a spot to launch an attack directly on the soil of the United States. I am not sure if this is possible for the wehrmacht but this is a what if thread.



I would like to hear your opinions on this.

~My first post.

Welcome too the forums!

I'll ask them too be gentle.

Thank you, I hope ill enjoy my stay!

Me too. What got you interested in WWII?

Welcome aboard, first of all!

Could you flesh out a bit more your scenario before the Hounds of War are released? How many troops, what troops, landing where? I can already hear them straining at their chains

How would your troopships evade detection?

Have you any idea the trouble the Allies took to prepare Op. Overlord and how many troops did they ammass to make it at least feasible?

This is going to be an interesting thread, yes sir!

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No Rest for the Wicked!

And if "anyone" is thinking of giving me neg rep for my welcome to our neophyte, he'd better think twice

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No Rest for the Wicked!

Sorry but im a little bit confussed, what does delaying Barbarossa have anything to do with invading Canada?

Are we referring to invading North America and just forgetting about Barbarossa?



Oh and Welcome aboard!

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

The first problem the German amphibious corps would have would be carrying enough ammo for more than a days fight. The next would be a US Army motorized corps, with lots of ammo showing up. (Forget forigen soil & all that, its our neighborhood & nobody touches it!). The German ampb group can land far enough north that no one can get across the boggy northern pine woods and marshes to get at them, but whats the point in that?

Ok I will go a little more deeper into the scenario


http://assets.panda.org/img/original/cw_boothia.jpg
Think of the possibilty of 40 of the divisions;also 6 panzer;500 luftwaffe meant for barborossa (or even if the whole Barborossa plan was dropped) being transported to the locations of clyde river or at toloyoak; my reason for not my not knowing would be each place would have their own outcome.

Clyde river; advantages:not many noticeable advantages, maybe a bigger area to make a base?
Disadvantages: A larger area to encounter allied troops and get into a gruesome stalemate,a need for water transport further on


taloyoak:advantages: An easier front to make their way into Canada's heartland,smaller position for better fortifications;nice place for a command base to be put in
Disadvantages: Could be attacked from the north


I would like to see your guys edits to my plan because this wasnt one of my biggest "imaginary" plans I have though about


Please dont think the wrong way about me because of the posts written quality; because if I could record my voice for a plan introduction it would be way more detailed.

How did I get into world war 2 history? I have always been very interested in world history; world war 2 things are of my "special" interest.

Remember if you would like to change my idea somewhat; there is the possibility of Barborossa being dropped for this so the power of that extra men would likely help alot.


A final note: I am aware of the fact that Germany probably wouldnt run the Russain invaison if they did this; but this would massivly change the result of the war!

While I think its safe to say that all of the members would consider this a little more then far fetched, certain question would still arise.

Say that Germany was some how capable of sending these 40 divisions across 3 thousand miles of ocean.. ( even though we are aware that the Germans failed to cross the channel )

I have to ask what seems to probably be the first problem. Logistics. If the Germans strougled so much with their supply lines in Russia which were on land and roughly 1000 miles, then how would they be able to support their supply line in the ocean spanning several thousand miles against a major naval power?

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Pearl Harbour hadnt happened yet though and I also meant to add in that there could be other ships in escort besides U-boats such as cargo freighters which could be loaded with gas, and remember to consider Barborossa could be canceled for the freeing of resources.

There is no evidence of submarines ever successfully escorting transports by using defensive fire. Submarines were successful because its enemy did not know where it was. Tie them to a fleet of transports...

The Germans did not possess nearly enough Type VII or better boats to provide anywhere near adequate escort, time on station and return and to provide escorts for later transports bringing basic supplies like POL, rations and ammo. For Operation Drumbeat, the Germans could only commit only 5 (or was it 6) boats for it's operation off the coast of the US in early 1942.

A large enough fleet transport to even carry enough German divsions to make a dent would not have gone unnoticed by the British as they assembled and would have been harrased by air, surface ships and their own subs well before they left German-controlled waters and all the way across the North Atlantic, not unlike PQ-17.

The Norwegian Campaign of 1940 showed the effectiveness of German sea-borne invasions. While it was ultimately successful, it wasn't without horrendous cost to the DKM.

I see no way this scenerio could get past the "what do y'all think about this?" phase.

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Best Regards,
JW

I don't think that it is feasible even today let alone in WWII WITH the combined industrial and military might of europe all working towards the goal. Look at the logistics of that. It would be a stalemate at first then America and Canada would steamroll the invading army.

Oh boy, I'm not going to lose this thread from sight

And we called the Iceland invasion scheme crazy!

Hey Kopf, for your benefit read this If Germany took Iceland

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No Rest for the Wicked!

If that Iceland op. was a win, this may have been something German Highcom may have considered. Do you people think that they would? (sorry if there re grammer mistakes, I am typing on a foolish school keyboard)

I think the whole point was that it would not have been

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Invasion in Canada!!!!!

Hitler knew he could not invade us here in England let alone Canada, no sorry Hitler's plans always lay in Europe.

PS: totenkopf, welcome to the best WW2 on the net.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

If the Germans successfully landed, I believe that they could successfully attack but would not be able to hold the bridgehead. One very important factor. England would be behind them with a very strong Royal Navy cutting off their supply line.

This plan is not a wise one due to that fact. Take out the Royal navy, then it could work if Germany could keep its forces supplied

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

But then Germany would very well have to worry about the mighty U.S. Navy wouldnt it?

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Oh, did I forget to mention them????? this was Summer 41' and the US was not involved............yet. But they would be an added threat.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Study up on US defense policy of the last two centurys. A German fleet/army showing up here would be a near instantaneous tigger for a US attack.