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What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2008, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

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Originally Posted by anaruka View Post
a good scenario. With its Navy being still more inferior in the Mediterranean because of the French fleet and by hostile forces in the East and West, Italy would not dare to attack from Libya.
For the Allies it could have made sense to conquer the whole Southern Mediterranean rim, but on the other hand with no ceasefire and France still being involved as the French/British Union and large parts if not all of the mainland occupied, could they politically afford to focus on anything else but reconquering the mainland ?
Yes the return to Paris and defeat of Germany would be the ultimate goal. In the short term the Allies have many limits of resources. It will still take several years.

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Another point to be examined could be the future of the French/UK co-operation. Monnet meant both countries literally to unify. Could this have been a core of European political Union? Would it have changed the British and the French postwar attitude towards each other, towards Europe and America? probably the Germans would have tried to exploit this issue by presenting it as French submission to Britain. In a second phase, if resistance was growing in the occupied territories this could have been the main propaganda item for a collaborationist French government...
Differing stratigic goals and operational thinking would make any form of alliance imperfect. So much depends on who the specific leaders are.

Taking a different direction... I'm told the French aircraft carrier might not escape France. What was the condition of the rest of the navy? Can anyone provide details, or recomend several good sources to read?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

My old national Geographic map shows a narrow gage railroad running from Tunis south to Gabes or Sfax. Its not clear which is the actual terminus.

Since supply is the foundation ofthe offence this railroad would be important to the Allied effort to capture Tripoli. So, was there in fact a railroad from Tunis to the Gabes/Sfax region, and what gage was it?

Also are there any sources showng the location and nature of the airfields in Tunisia and Lybia?
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Old March 24th, 2008, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

Some casual checks have revealed little of what the French air force did send and planned to send to Africa. Does anyone have some usefull refrrences or number they can post for this?

Also, how far had France progressed in the development of air dropped torpedos?

thanks
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Old March 28th, 2008, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

Weygand wanted to sent and hide weapons in Africa but he thought it was impossible to send men.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

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Weygand wanted to sent and hide weapons in Africa but he thought it was impossible to send men.
I think that for a French government to continue the fight Weygand would have to be replaced quickly. Several others as well. This is not to say many soldiers could have been evacuated. But, that much more aggresive leaders would be needed. Which brings me back to the question of who might have taken the senior military positons?

To change the subject. Does anyone have any relaible information on the condition and location for the French navy and cargo fleet in the summer of 1940? nominal orders of battle for the navy are easy to find, but I am not finding much for the condition and other details, at least in English language literture.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

Here goes a link to an interesting page:

France Fights On!

Just what this thread is all about...
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

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Here goes a link to an interesting page:

France Fights On!

Just what this thread is all about...

Yes I've read the first chapter with interest. It has some estimates of the aircraft avialble to the air force. The rest of it I've not read deeply. Wish they had cited their sources better & included more data.
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Old April 5th, 2008, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

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I think that for a French government to continue the fight Weygand would have to be replaced quickly. Several others as well. This is not to say many soldiers could have been evacuated. But, that much more aggresive leaders would be needed. Which brings me back to the question of who might have taken the senior military positons?
Could have been general Petrelat or general Doumenc who were competent and brave but not so agressives too, maybe already general De Lattre or Bethouart, more offensive but they hadn't great commands in 1940 with a division for the first and a half-brigade for the second. We'll never know how good was general Corap (perhaps he wasn't bad nut he was under general Huntziger).

De Lattre de Tassigny too was a great commander who fought victoriously in Rethel in 1940 and had sophisticated positions about tank warfare. But he was close to Weygand and he only commanded a division.

Not so much choice. General George was pathetic, Huntziger too, Molinié, Frere and Giraud were captured...
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Old April 7th, 2008, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

I notice Huntzinger has his name as command of the remaining group of field armys in central France during June. Chapman also mentions him as considered by Daladier to be a candadate for Gamelins replacement. Are these items correct? Competency aside he seems to have the favor of Daladier. I know nothing of Petrelat or general Doumenc other than they were peers of Billotte & Huntzinger.

For the air forces were there likely replacements for Vulleimin? Would the replacement of the air forces chief made much difference?
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Old April 14th, 2008, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: France fights on in North Africa

Whilst studying the disposition of the Fremnch navy in June 1940 I noticed only a single light crusier and a few coastal patrol craft or gunboats were stationed in Indochina. Was this normal for France, or was a larger squadron or fleet withdrawn earlier in 1939?
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