Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940 - Page 3

Tomcat · #51 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

This is just absurb, your views are completely one sided you are not reviewing facts just pure speculation. This dosn't matter ' As Japan and Italy didnt back Germany when they went to war.' The fact is they were allies, the axis forces, thus making Japans enemys of the European axis's enemys (germany, Italy) meaning war with Japan meant war with Germany.

Were in my scenario have Japan attacked the British Empire? and even if they did it's highly unlikely that Germany would declare war on Britain after Hitler had got the peace he so desired with Britain.
This is after all a man who said he would use German troops to defend the British Empire if need be.

Yes the British would feel that they were at risk of being invaded, look at these two points

Invasion of Britain was impossible even more so while German was engaged against the USSR.

1.Germany has conquoered the whole of Europe except Britain, dosn't that make you think that you are next?
No Germany has not conquered the whole of Europe.
Sweden, Finland, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland etc have not been conquered by Germany and they have no desire to do so.

2.Germany has lied and lied about countries they werent going to invade, but they did why would Britain be any different?

Read Mein Kampf Hitler states he wanted an alliance or atleast peace with Italy and England.

Germany would know this two so they would never move all these hundred of thousands of troops needed in france to hold the costal defenses against the above points.

Read the above.

Now something that you are missing is that for every country that Germany controls that is more and more divisions that are diverted from the frontlines to protect all these countries not only from invasion from other countries, but also to stop partisans and uprisings such as the warsaw uprising, this dosn't include the extra troops need to drive the endless amount of supply trucks needed to not only fuel the frontline divisions but al those in these support areas and the support troops needed to defend these supply lines against resistance units, so these hundreds of thousands of troops would be in every other country but russia.

95% if not all German troops could be withdrawn from Western Europe and used in the East.
Hitler even suggested this in 1941.

hahaha this is incredible do you have any real facts or real points about how the germans could achieve this, no you don't, except you continue to argue a point that is unrealistic.

and you use mein kampf as an example of what hitler would do, why don't you learn a little more about what did happen in ww2 compared to what if, fact- he did say i wont invade norway, denmark, belgium, netherlands. fact-he did. 'Hitler suggested' you really are going to trust hitlers control of the Germany army look at all the stupid mistakes no General in his right mind would do.

this is absurd

Tomcat · #52 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

Captured troops, POW in the arms industry?
What the hell are you talking about?

if you had read the post properly then you would have seen that it was a question as to where these million troops were coming from

Vince Noir · #53 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

In real time after the conquest of the resourses area the Japanese still had a shortfall in what they needed.
This wouldnt be the case if they remained trading with the British Empire.

Come on... Get real...

This statement makes a mockery of attempting counter-factual history.

You are telling me that the British will trade with the Japanese while they progress a war against Holland (Dutch East Indies) and the USA?

Come on... That just aint gonna happen.

British-Empire · #54 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat

if you had read the post properly then you would have seen that it was a question as to where these million troops were coming from

They are the German and Italian troops that where deployed in the West and North Africa.
Thats before we even count the Turks.

British-Empire · #55 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince Noir

Come on... Get real...

This statement makes a mockery of attempting counter-factual history.

You are telling me that the British will trade with the Japanese while they progress a war against Holland (Dutch East Indies) and the USA?

Come on... That just aint gonna happen.

Why not Whats the Dutch and the Americans to us?

Shangas · #56 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 09:17 AM

look this is just going around on circles your complete scenario is absurd your reply to facts are adsurb and the British avoding a world war right on there door step with all there allies and unoffical allies involved is aburd, and what more your timeline is fule of holes and as I said speculation, why would the americans lose miday this time around since nothing has changed from the real world war 2?

I'm sorry, B/E, but I have to agree with Tomcat here. The British would not ignore the Japanese expansion, especially if it got close to their colonies in South-East Asia. I would not believe that the British would not take SOME action once the Japs had attacked and defeated Siam and were on the southern Siamese border with Malaya.

Tomcat · #57 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

They are the German and Italian troops that where deployed in the West and North Africa.
Thats before we even count the Turks.

Britain held many lands in North africa, So what the italians are just going to forget there dreams of expansion becasue england didn't go to war with Germany?

Come on mate.

Quote Why not Whats the Dutch and the Americans to us?

And this is why Churchill was elected PM, becuase he knew foreign policy, and that what happens around the world affects you at home.

Tomcat · #58 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

Do you think Japan would be foolish enough to take on the USA and the British Empire while it is not at war elsewhere?

And so does this include the Japanese not invading Australia which after all is commenwealth country which if declared war against is the same as declareing war on Britain.

Shangas · #59 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 09:58 AM

At the outbreak of WWII, the British had the largest empire of all the European Greats. I think it would have been impossible for Japan to carry out it's expansionist dreams without stepping on a proverbial landmine and waking up the Brits. England just had too many colonies for the Japs NOT to be able to ignore them and still carry out their plans.

But let's think about this...

Okay, Britain doesn't enter WWII, or makes peace with the Nazis. The Japs and the US fight it out. With Hawaii taken, the Yanks must find somewhere else close-ish to Japan from which they can base their operations. Australia is a natural choice. It's close, but not too close. It's with a friendly country, and the Americans DID make bases in Australia during WWII.

The Japs get wise to the bases in Australia. Now in *real life*, the Japs bombed the Northern Territory capital city of Darwin TWICE (at least), to drive out the Yanks, who had airplane bases there. Apart from destroying an American base, that would be an attack on the Commonwealth of Australia and on the British Empire - I refer you back to my previous point - that the Japs would not be able to carry out their plans without in some way tripping over a British Crown Colony in the Pacific region.

Vince Noir · #60 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

Why not Whats the Dutch and the Americans to us?

LMAO!

That kinda puts your thinking into perspective...

You dont seem to consider the close relationship between the Dutch and British monarchies at the time, or the reliance on trade and imports from the USA.

Just one thing regarding Halifax himself...

"By July 1940 Halifax initialled stern Foreign Office rejection of German peace feelers from the Papal Nuncio in Berne, Dr. Salazar in Lisbon and the Finnish Prime Minister..."

Tomcat · #61 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shangas

Okay, Britain doesn't enter WWII, or makes peace with the Nazis. The Japs and the US fight it out. With Hawaii taken, the Yanks must find somewhere else close-ish to Japan from which they can base their operations. Australia is a natural choice. It's close, but not too close. It's with a friendly country, and the Americans DID make bases in Australia during WWII.

The Japs get wise to the bases in Australia. Now in *real life*, the Japs bombed the Northern Territory capital city of Darwin TWICE (at least), to drive out the Yanks, who had airplane bases there. Apart from destroying an American base, that would be an attack on the Commonwealth of Australia and on the British Empire - I refer you back to my previous point - that the Japs would not be able to carry out their plans without in some way tripping over a British Crown Colony in the Pacific region.

But the Japanese could never match up to the American war machine once it got in full swing even on a complete one on one, but other then that your whole posts just second what I have said Britain would undoubtfully be brought into the war one way or another.

Shangas · #62 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 11:22 AM

I know, that's the whole point of my post - to illustrate that WWII without British intervention in some shape or form, would not be possible.

Tomcat · #63 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shangas

, the Japs bombed the Northern Territory capital city of Darwin TWICE (at least), to drive out the Yanks,

Just to this mate :Bombing raids on Australia WW2

NT
Darwin = 64+ seperate bombing raids
Katherine = 1 raid
Wnydham= 2 raids
Derby= 1 raid
Broom= 4 raids
Port Hedland= 1 Raid

QLD
Cairns wa bombed once
Townsville 3 seperate raids

NSW
Sydney shelled from Japanes Midget Submarine with 21 casualities
as well as Newcastle

British-Empire · #64 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shangas

look this is just going around on circles your complete scenario is absurd your reply to facts are adsurb and the British avoding a world war right on there door step with all there allies and unoffical allies involved is aburd, and what more your timeline is fule of holes and as I said speculation, why would the americans lose miday this time around since nothing has changed from the real world war 2?

I'm sorry, B/E, but I have to agree with Tomcat here. The British would not ignore the Japanese expansion, especially if it got close to their colonies in South-East Asia. I would not believe that the British would not take SOME action once the Japs had attacked and defeated Siam and were on the southern Siamese border with Malaya.

No doubt the British would deploy most the Royal Navy in Asia if Japan expanded and send extra troops but I doubt very much they would go to war to defend the Dutch East Indies and the USA having just made peace in Europe.
Britain could quite easly of avoided war on it's door step Sweden and Spain managed too.

British-Empire · #65 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat

Britain held many lands in North africa, So what the italians are just going to forget there dreams of expansion becasue england didn't go to war with Germany?

Come on mate.

Quote Why not Whats the Dutch and the Americans to us?

And this is why Churchill was elected PM, becuase he knew foreign policy, and that what happens around the world affects you at home.

Churchill wasnt elected PM in 1940 he was just second choice of the Conservative party and King after Lord Halifax turned it down.
Italy wouldnt have dared take on the British Empire had we not been at war with Germany.

British-Empire · #66 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat

And so does this include the Japanese not invading Australia which after all is commenwealth country which if declared war against is the same as declareing war on Britain.

Yes Australia is not invaded as the scenario says.

Tomcat · #67 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

No doubt the British would deploy most the Royal Navy in Asia if Japan expanded and send extra troops but I doubt very much they would go to war to defend the Dutch East Indies and the USA having just made peace in Europe.
Britain could quite easly of avoided war on it's door step Sweden and Spain managed too.

Sweden and spain were not super powers who needed to show there power in arms races and conflicts, britain need to sport her dominance if she was to keep her overseas provinces going, and again I don't think that the RN would be deployed to Asia in mass they would have thought about the British Isle firstly and lastly.

If you were the PM of Britain would you risk leaving Britain undefended against Germay after Germany has taken control and invaded virtually all of the European countries and gained control of all there resoureces and there limited man power?

British-Empire · #68 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shangas

At the outbreak of WWII, the British had the largest empire of all the European Greats. I think it would have been impossible for Japan to carry out it's expansionist dreams without stepping on a proverbial landmine and waking up the Brits. England just had too many colonies for the Japs NOT to be able to ignore them and still carry out their plans.

But let's think about this...

Okay, Britain doesn't enter WWII, or makes peace with the Nazis. The Japs and the US fight it out. With Hawaii taken, the Yanks must find somewhere else close-ish to Japan from which they can base their operations. Australia is a natural choice. It's close, but not too close. It's with a friendly country, and the Americans DID make bases in Australia during WWII.

The Japs get wise to the bases in Australia. Now in *real life*, the Japs bombed the Northern Territory capital city of Darwin TWICE (at least), to drive out the Yanks, who had airplane bases there. Apart from destroying an American base, that would be an attack on the Commonwealth of Australia and on the British Empire - I refer you back to my previous point - that the Japs would not be able to carry out their plans without in some way tripping over a British Crown Colony in the Pacific region.

The Australians would end Imperialial neautrality if they allowed in American troops so no doubt they would refuse.
With the main portion of the Royal Navy in the area Australia would have no worry from the Japs.

Za Rodinu · #69 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:07 PM

http://flyashi.googlepages.com/troll.jpg

Tomcat · #70 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Empire

Yes Australia is not invaded as the scenario says.

But your scenario is completely changing the face of ww2 as we know it and therefore it is not based of ww2 but your fantasy ww2, none of the countries in your scenario are behaving anything like those of the real ww2.

British-Empire · #71 (**permalink**) March 4th, 2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince Noir

LMAO!

That kinda puts your thinking into perspective...

You dont seem to consider the close relationship between the Dutch and British monarchies at the time, or the reliance on trade and imports from the USA.

Just one thing regarding Halifax himself...

"By July 1940 Halifax initialled stern Foreign Office rejection of German peace feelers from the Papal Nuncio in Berne, Dr. Salazar in Lisbon and the Finnish Prime Minister..."

But Halifax didnt have the power to entertain peace offers then as Churchill was Prime Minister.

Halifax stated in June that "we should look at any peace offer made by Germany" to Churchill but Churchill refused to look at any.