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| What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb? |
March 4th, 2008, 12:17 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by British-Empire
You seem almost desperate to have Britain come into the war.
Cant you manage without us?
My time line has got to the stage where American production will just come into things by the end of 1943 the Americans have the fleet again to match the Japanese and take maybe take back Hawaii.
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It is not a matter of needing or not needing Britain it is a fact that Britain played a scondary role in the D-day landings to the Americans.
But your timeline is made up out of blue no real facts, just you adding what every comes together, Hawaii never would have been lost look how far the Japanese would have had to operate from home bases to even attemp such an amphibious assualt they would be sitting ducks to any american warship.
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March 4th, 2008, 12:17 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
anyone else feel like they are  ?
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Anyone who clings to the historically untrue--and thoroughly immoral--doctrine that 'violence never solves anything'... Violence, naked force, has settled more disputes in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." Robert Heinlein
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March 4th, 2008, 12:19 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebatzel
anyone else feel like they are ? |
with every reply I have done since the first reply post, this is going no where.
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March 4th, 2008, 12:29 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by British-Empire
Britain had over 900 warships.
The Germans about 30.
It's hardly going to be undefended thats not even mentioning the RAF.
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The British rely on convoys for supplies they would never lower down escorts and home fleets and how many of those 900 warships were capital ships and not just screens? you need the Infantry and tanks to stop an advance.
Which countreis?
Japan- why arnt they invading all of the south pacifc this time?
Italy - Expansion into North Africa?
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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
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March 4th, 2008, 12:32 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
I've read the replies since my last post here and I reckon this thread is quickly reaching the point of being locked. It's done nothing but provide a breeding-ground for hostility, as well as some interesting and thought-provoking arguments, which I have enjoyed reading (thanks for the information about air-raids on Australia, Tom, that was very enlightening!!  ) I don't see that contributing to this thread much more will accomplish anything.
B/E's Britishless WWII is based upon theory and not upon facts such as alternate dates for attacks, proposed battles that were called off, and such-like. To quote Sherlock Holmes:
"It is capital mistake to theorise without facts. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to fit facts".
In other words, that one should work with known information and base their beliefs or conclusions on that, and not on stuff that not only did not happen, but also was not even thought of.
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March 4th, 2008, 12:38 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shangas
I've read the replies since my last post here and I reckon this thread is quickly reaching the point of being locked. It's done nothing but provide a breeding-ground for hostility, as well as some interesting and thought-provoking arguments, which I have enjoyed reading (thanks for the information about air-raids on Australia, Tom, that was very enlightening!! ) I don't see that contributing to this thread much more will accomplish anything.
B/E's Britishless WWII is based upon theory and not upon facts such as alternate dates for attacks, proposed battles that were called off, and such-like. To quote Sherlock Holmes:
"It is capital mistake to theorise without facts. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to fit facts".
In other words, that one should work with known information and base their beliefs or conclusions on that, and not on stuff that not only did not happen, but also was not even thought of. |
I completely agree, ok then BE I am just going to say I agree to disagree with you on this one and the other thread as well.
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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
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March 4th, 2008, 01:11 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat
It is not a matter of needing or not needing Britain it is a fact that Britain played a scondary role in the D-day landings to the Americans.
But your timeline is made up out of blue no real facts, just you adding what every comes together, Hawaii never would have been lost look how far the Japanese would have had to operate from home bases to even attemp such an amphibious assualt they would be sitting ducks to any american warship.
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In this scenario the full Japanese fleet was deployed at Midway thus the victory which left Hawaii wide open.
This is before we mention the German and Italian U-Boat threat to American shipping.
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March 4th, 2008, 01:14 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat
The British rely on convoys for supplies they would never lower down escorts and home fleets and how many of those 900 warships were capital ships and not just screens? you need the Infantry and tanks to stop an advance.
Which countreis?
Japan- why arnt they invading all of the south pacifc this time?
Italy - Expansion into North Africa?
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Britain doesn’t need convoys, as it isn’t at war.
Japan and Italy both wont challenge Britain white she is not engaged elsewhere.
Mussolini had 18 years to take on Britain before he eventually did and that was only after we where fighting the Germans same with the Japanese.
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March 4th, 2008, 01:18 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shangas
I've read the replies since my last post here and I reckon this thread is quickly reaching the point of being locked. It's done nothing but provide a breeding-ground for hostility, as well as some interesting and thought-provoking arguments, which I have enjoyed reading (thanks for the information about air-raids on Australia, Tom, that was very enlightening!! ) I don't see that contributing to this thread much more will accomplish anything.
B/E's Britishless WWII is based upon theory and not upon facts such as alternate dates for attacks, proposed battles that were called off, and such-like. To quote Sherlock Holmes:
"It is capital mistake to theorise without facts. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to fit facts".
In other words, that one should work with known information and base their beliefs or conclusions on that, and not on stuff that not only did not happen, but also was not even thought of. |
These theories have both been explored before be Britain’s top historian AJP Taylor who agrees Britain gained nothing but last a lot from the war and John Charmley and Alan Clarke said much the same.
John Charmley has all so written several very interesting counter factuals on British neutrality that go up to about 1942.
Im trying to take it a bit further here based on what each country and its leaders are likely to do next.
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March 4th, 2008, 01:19 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat
I completely agree, ok then BE I am just going to say I agree to disagree with you on this one and the other thread as well.
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Give me somthing specific you disagree on.
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March 4th, 2008, 07:18 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by British-Empire
Give me somthing specific you disagree on.
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I am not going to rewrite everthing that I have writen in this thread just because you are to bothered to read it yourself, but very basically, I disagree with everthing you are saying, that is everthing you have changed I it just not possible If you want to understand read the whole thread again please.
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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget
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March 4th, 2008, 09:29 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat
I am not going to rewrite everthing that I have writen in this thread just because you are to bothered to read it yourself, but very basically, I disagree with everthing you are saying, that is everthing you have changed I it just not possible If you want to understand read the whole thread again please.
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So it's not possible that Lord Halifax could accept the role as PM?
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March 4th, 2008, 09:34 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by British-Empire
Yes only because of one person the man who could have been Prime Minister had he wanted.
It's very realistic.
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Not as realistic as you may like to think, as eveyone is disagreeing with you. 
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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler
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March 4th, 2008, 09:59 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloniksp
Not as realistic as you may like to think, as eveyone is disagreeing with you. |
Myself, Lord Halifax and Britains top historians must all be wrong then cos a few people in an internet forum said so.
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March 4th, 2008, 10:00 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Man... you really are way too up yourself.
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March 4th, 2008, 10:06 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedBaron
Man... you really are way too up yourself.
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Ya THINK?? lol. And I thought some of the other "What Ifs" were not close to being in the realm of being realistic.
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March 4th, 2008, 10:15 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by British-Empire
Myself, Lord Halifax and Britains top historians must all be wrong then cos a few people in an internet forum said so.
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Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide some sources or names of these "Britains top historians", as to better educate little old us on the matter?
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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler
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March 4th, 2008, 10:20 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
C'mon guys. This is getting old. We're getting new folks here and we don't need to look like bickering old sods. I think it is time to close out this thread.
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March 4th, 2008, 10:37 PM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloniksp
Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide some sources or names of these "Britains top historians", as to better educate little old us on the matter?
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J P Taylor, Alan Clarke, John Charmley, Frank Ellis etc
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March 5th, 2008, 12:46 AM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Oh that gives me a good idea,
"What if Germany invade Antarctica?"
Sorry, me being a fool
Please close the thread, its at its climax of anger and oddities.
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March 5th, 2008, 12:51 AM
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Re: Great Britain makes peace with Hitler in 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by PzJgr
C'mon guys. This is getting old. We're getting new folks here and we don't need to look like bickering old sods. I think it is time to close out this thread.
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Okay Ike, I recognize reasonable comments when I see them.
Come back later when the store is open, y'all.
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