Axis

Members: 3,721
Threads: 14,493
Posts: 180,716
Online: 270

Newest Member:
born_soldier25611

 
 
 
Go Back   World War II Forums > General Discussion > What If?
Register FAQ Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #26 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2008, 02:29 PM
recruit
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Stratforce is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Good afternoon all.

I have been researching British involvement in Finland 1939-45 for several years, both here in the UK and in Helsinki. Without going into too much detail I can say:

An Anglo/French plan was in place and was being put into effect when the Winter War ended. I have full details of the forces and the plan. The force included the only British Ski Battalion ever raised.

The plan was highly secret at the time, with only the senior commanders aware of the destination. When the Winter War ended before it could be put into effect, the whole thing was buried. Later research revealed that one of the reasons that Stalin was willing to end the war was that he was aware of the plan and did not want to confront Britain and France.

Had the plan proceeded it is hard to imagine what would have happened.

How close did we come? British troops were boarding ships when the news came that the war had ended. The planners believed that we were about a month away from war with the Soviet Union.

Another interesting aspect was that the British commanders requested clarification on what they should do if either Norway or Sweden opposed their arrival?

The British Volunteer Company of the Finnish Army, which again I have researched, was not part of the plan. But they were a fascinating collection of men and I have a lot of interesting research about them. I have the medals and documents of two of the volunteers and a sidecap with badge.

Last edited by Stratforce; April 23rd, 2008 at 06:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:14 AM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 12,783
Kai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the rough
Thumbs up Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Welcome Stratforce!

That is interesting info you got!

Any idea if it was negotiated with the Finnish government where the troops would be situated in Finland?

Also if possible would love to see those medals etc.

Greetings,

Kai-Petri
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:48 AM
Falcon Jun's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
Posts: 518
Falcon Jun has a spectacular aura aboutFalcon Jun has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Now that is a fascinating piece of info. A British involvement with Finland against the Soviet Union opens up a lot of possibilities and could potentially alter the political dynamics that prompted Hitler to go to war with Russia in the manner that he did.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2008, 04:43 PM
recruit
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Stratforce is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai-Petri View Post
Any idea if it was negotiated with the Finnish government where the troops would be situated in Finland?
Kai-Petri
Draft Instructions (7 Feb. 1940) "..... an indication of our intentions to be conveyed to Field Marshall Mannerheim by Brigadier Ling who was shortly leaving for Finland..... The forces which the Allies would be in a position to move into Finland arriving early in April would be prepared to operate on the SALLA front. They would not be prepared to operate on any front south of an east and west line drawn through KEMI."

The hope was that the Soviets would not engage the Anglo-French troops. The Finnish units in the area would then move south. The plan included RAF bombers operating from airfields in Finland.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 07:02 AM
Falcon Jun's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
Posts: 518
Falcon Jun has a spectacular aura aboutFalcon Jun has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratforce View Post
The hope was that the Soviets would not engage the Anglo-French troops. The Finnish units in the area would then move south. The plan included RAF bombers operating from airfields in Finland.
I see. Let me get this straight: The British military presence is more of a show of force that will act as a deterrent to further Soviet incursion into Finland? Would that really work? This looks more like a modern day UN peacekeeping operation.
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 09:09 AM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 12,783
Kai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratforce View Post

The hope was that the Soviets would not engage the Anglo-French troops. The Finnish units in the area would then move south. The plan included RAF bombers operating from airfields in Finland.

Thanx for the info! Unfortunately this would not work ( i.e. not engaged in battle ) as the Red Army was also fighting through the Petsamo area, and also had more than some aircraft to keep the Swedish volunteer pilots busy in Lapland.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 11:55 AM
Za Rodinu's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The world is my backside, hmm, backyard!
Posts: 5,385
Za Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really nice
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

F19 in the Winter War

Quote:
The Swedish volunteer unit, F19 operated in northern Finland for 62 days during the Winter War. The Finnish and Swedish pilots had made several squadron visits between the two countries prior to the war so there were already very good ties between the air forces.
__________________
There is an ass in my avatar.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 04:05 PM
recruit
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Stratforce is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

The planners expressed the "hope" that the Soviets would not want to engage them, but it was accepted that the more likely outcome was war with the Soviet Union. The RAF bombers were to commence offensive operations on arriving in Finland. The RAF volunteer aircrews were to wear Finnish Air Force uniforms and have FAF markings on their aircraft. If shot down and captured they were to claim to be volunteers and not members of the RAF. A total of 50 aircraft were assigned to the operation. One fighter squadron was planned to operate from northern Sweden to protect the lines of communication.

The French were far more aggressive in their plans. They even put forward a plan to land at Murmansk.

Maybe I should write a book
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 05:36 PM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 12,783
Kai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratforce View Post

Maybe I should write a book
Any decent plan and negotiations with the Finnish government would be worth a book. So far at least I have not found much else than promises and more promises in the books, really. I do understand the difficulty of getting the troops to Finland but going to war is never easy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 05:53 PM
Za Rodinu's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The world is my backside, hmm, backyard!
Posts: 5,385
Za Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really niceZa Rodinu is just really nice
Smile Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratforce View Post
If shot down and captured they were to claim to be volunteers and not members of the RAF.
Yes, that would do the trick!
__________________
There is an ass in my avatar.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old April 30th, 2008, 03:26 PM
Falcon Jun's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
Posts: 518
Falcon Jun has a spectacular aura aboutFalcon Jun has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: What if the UK did send troops to aid Finland?

Since I've been looking for more information on this matter, I decided to check on the history of Sweden during World War II in my encyclopedia.
What I found is confirmation that there was indeed a British plan to send troops to Finland. However, what was implied was that sending the troops to Finland was also a cover to get at Sweden's ore production.
The plan was apparently about to be implemented but had to be aborted because Finland had surrendered.
Had this operation been launched, would Sweden end up in the Axis side? From what I've read, the government at that time had adopted a policy of strict neutrality but declared a policy of non-beligerency when Russia invaded Finland. The Swedes also had leased several merchant ships to the British.
Despite reading Sweden's history, I am not really familiar with Swedish military equipment during World War II. But I do know that the Swedish military is considered first rate.
Another question, if the Swedish military did end up on the Axis side because of this UK operation, how much of an effect could this be on the German military's efforts in this area?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Wake island and "Send us more Japs!" Kai-Petri War in the Pacific 3 June 14th, 2007 01:02 AM
Friends, send me your money ! Martin Bull WWII Today 18 March 10th, 2004 03:43 PM
Maybe I can send them to Volkbert! Bill Smith Free Fire Zone 14 May 4th, 2003 07:49 PM
For Volkbert. These will be the first I send 2 U. C.Evans Militaria 3 April 18th, 2003 09:19 PM
Send me WW2 Links and Info! Otto WWII General 28 June 15th, 2002 06:48 PM


Google
 

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:25 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2000 - 2007, the World War II Network, all rights reserved.Ad Management by RedTyger

Allies