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What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

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Old March 19th, 2008, 06:27 AM
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Default Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

The recent thread on Brazil made me wonder what would happen if Germany had made a concerted effort to actually occupy and hold overseas territory of nations they had conquered. For example, what if Germany had actually sent troops to occupy and hold Martinque? There was a Vichy French squadron of ships there including the aircraft carrier Bearn. Given the ships there and a reasonably strong occupying force the Germans could have presented a real problem in the Americas.
But, there are other localities that they might have tried to occupy as well. The Netherlands Antillies, French Guiana, Trinidad and or Tobago. With a sympathic nation in South America this might have proved a real delimma for the US if not Britain.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

It certainly is worth considering but I doubt that the Germans could have made a major effort to do so. The British would certainly have sent Royal Navy units to interdict any such attempt. The problem for the Germans would be how to sent enough troops and equipment to properly garrison the overseas territories of the occupied countries. Germany would certainly have to break through a Royal Navy gauntlet.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

The Germans didn't have the sea power to perform what you are suggesting, they couldn't face the RAN in the Channel let alone both the combined forces of the Americans, British and all the commonwealth navies. Plus the distant to south America for the Germans is quite great for an occupation force to attempt to cover as well as the attemps to suppy the Garrision.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

The German attempts to prepare the way with previouslly residing Germans, and by infitrating additional agents were nuetralized by the end of 1941. The British worked very hard at this effort and I expect most of the more unsavory aspects such as assasination are still secret.

Other efforts to send overt military groups also were squashed. The armistice commision represenatives in the French colonys were the largest & most visable group. The weather stations established on the Greenland coast were another. Then there was the Luftwaffe squadron and other military reps sent to aid the Iraqis in their revolt. Even the concealed comerce raiders were tracked down, despite numerous preperations and pro Axis governemnts to draw support from.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

I believe that this along with some other What-ifs, might have worked if it was on Germany's agenda or priority. The problem however was Barbarossa. All of Germany's available resources went there.

Perhaps if Barbarossa had not taken place.........
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

Martinque represents one of the more tantalizing possibilities in this. There is a French naval squadron there including the carrier Bearn. In addition there were over 200 Curtiss Hawk 75, Brewester 339B fighters, and Curtiss SBC Helldiver bombers sitting on the island awaiting shipment to France on the Bearn.
If the Germans could somehow have managed to put an occupation force, say of one or two battalions on the island, all of this equipment would have fallen into their hands giving them the largest air force in the region.
It is possible they could have managed it using a fast merchant or two in the same sense that they had sent merchant raiders to sea. Of course, how useful this would have been and what the US reaction was is hard to estimate.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Martinque represents one of the more tantalizing possibilities in this. There is a French naval squadron there including the carrier Bearn. In addition there were over 200 Curtiss Hawk 75, Brewester 339B fighters, and Curtiss SBC Helldiver bombers sitting on the island awaiting shipment to France on the Bearn.
If the Germans could somehow have managed to put an occupation force, say of one or two battalions on the island, all of this equipment would have fallen into their hands giving them the largest air force in the region.
It is possible they could have managed it using a fast merchant or two in the same sense that they had sent merchant raiders to sea. Of course, how useful this would have been and what the US reaction was is hard to estimate.
My guess is that the 1st Marine Division would have had a chance to put invasion theories into practice well before Guadalcanal, especially after FDR had used the Monroe Doctrine to justify his actions. I believe that before long, the Bearn would be escorting convoys to Great Britain.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:40 PM
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Talking Re: Germany makes a concerted effort to occupy overseas territory of conquered nations

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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Martinque represents one of the more tantalizing possibilities in this. There is a French naval squadron there including the carrier Bearn. In addition there were over 200 Curtiss Hawk 75, Brewester 339B fighters, and Curtiss SBC Helldiver bombers sitting on the island awaiting shipment to France on the Bearn.
I think if the Germans were to occupy Martinique they would all have gone native, dinking rum and basking in the sun under the spell of proto-Reggae, not forgetting to pull a few spiffs on happy grass. Where's Peppy, by the way?

Now it would be a fine opportunity to build a master race, all those mullatas with quasi-divine bodies, curly hair and blue eyes...
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