Spain and portugal joined the axis? - Page 2

JCFalkenbergIII · #26 (**permalink**) July 10th, 2008, 03:31 AM

Once again some never consider the LOGISTICS when it comes to their scenarios.

Miguel B. · #27 (**permalink**) July 10th, 2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PzJgr

What tanks did Spain or Portugal have to compete with the T-34? Manpower alone would not win the war.

As I said, Portugal had Berliets

They could stop ten infantry divisions or 8 armored divisions... Each!

lol

On a serious note, Portugal and Spain would need some buid up by the Germans. Our regular army was ill equiped as it was and changing to a war economy would enable us to field some more divisions but we were lacking in artillerie, airforce and armor... The three more important parts in a war... but, as I said, all this would be academic since the manpower required to protect the extra 9000 Km of coast would render any gains in manpower useless and might even draw some manpower from the Eastern front just to prevent landings...

Cheers...

Za Rodinu · #28 (**permalink**) July 10th, 2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIguel B.

Ah I bet our Berliets would change the tide in the Eastern front

... I think the worst part of Portugal and Spain joining the Axis was the extended landmass they had to protect... The extra men would be welcome but the extra landmass would remove even more from the front... But of course, they'd have our berliets...

Berliets my backslide, the Berliet truck plant (French license) at Tramagal was opened in the mid 60's only

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipdigit

Educate me on Gibraltar's importance to Britain's hold on the Med. How would the loss of the port at Gibraltar affected the Royal navy's effort in the Med? Certainly it functioned as a refueling/replenishment base and as a stop-over for air flights headed east, but would it's loss significantly alter Britain's ability to control the Western Med and could it be supplanted by another base on Northern Africa or an Atlantic Island? I guess I need to look at a map to better judge distances.

Gib could easily block the Med, by the power of the coastal artillery and naval forces stationed there, crossing fires with the guns on the southern side at Ceuta, already held by Spain (still there).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIguel B.

Portugal population in the 40's was around 8 million souls and the manpower they could provide would be tops in absolute crisis maybe 400-500K men... As for the extra manpower in the Eastern front, I believe it'd actually draw manpower from the eastern front simply cause of the sheer quantity of men needed to protect the huge coastal landmass...

I think you are exaggeranting, during the Colonial Wars in the 60s P. could put up a total of continuous mobilised personnel of 150,000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PzJgr

When Spain sent its volunteers to Russia, Germany had to equip them fully. If you are implying that by sending divisions worth of manpower would tip the scales, what would they be arriving with? What tanks did Spain or Portugal have to compete with the T-34? Manpower alone would not win the war.

Easy. Nothing at all, think Romania without the oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIguel B.

On a serious note, Portugal and Spain would need some buid up by the Germans.... this would be academic since the manpower required to protect the extra 9000 Km of coast would render any gains in manpower useless and might even draw some manpower from the Eastern front just to prevent landings...

That's right, it would be yet another huge drain on the Reich's resources. Totally pointless. Better leave them be where they were, all the while supplying ores and sardines. Besides Adolf looked at us peninsulars as so jewified as to be next on the Final Solution queue

Chaos20 · #29 (**permalink**) July 10th, 2008, 04:56 PM

exactly if gib would have been captured by spain the coast in spain morroco (as it was a spanish colony) and gibraltar full of artillery obviously it would have been supplied by germans but there the royal navy wouldn't have been able to pass well i don't think. plus iwth lufftwaffa support?

Za Rodinu · #30 (**permalink**) July 10th, 2008, 06:57 PM

Then what if the Brits landed at Tarifa and retook Gibraltar? Tangiers had been a Brit posession as well (passed on by the Portuguese in the XVIIth century), what if they retook it and took Ceuta in the back, eh?

What Ifs are endless, aren't they?

Za Rodinu · #31 (**permalink**) July 10th, 2008, 07:00 PM

Still speaking of the Portuguese Navy, at the time we had three submarines bought from Britain in the 30s, Delfim, Espadarte e Golfinho (Dolphin, Swordfish and Porpoise). The saying went: "One doesn't go down, the other doesn't come up, and the third does neither"

Za Rodinu · #32 (**permalink**) July 10th, 2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PzJgr

What tanks did Spain or Portugal have to compete with the T-34?

Sorry, I forgot to mention the 3 (three!) Vickers 6-Ton

Much later on we got a bunch of 2nd hand Valentines

Za Rodinu · #33 (**permalink**) July 20th, 2008, 08:18 AM

Hawkerace, I got it all wrong!!!

There was the Guadiana class of 4: Guadiana, Douro, Vouga, Tamega, but these were old ships bought in 1913-1920; and the Douro class of 5: Douro, Dão, Lima, Tejo and Vouga, these ones purchased in 1932-35 to replace the former.

Za Rodinu · #34 (**permalink**) August 15th, 2008, 04:46 PM

What If we put together all the 'Spain joined the Axis' threads that came out of their graves?

This one Spain and portugal joined the axis? and
What if Spain had joined the Axis?
What if Spain Joined the Axis

JCFalkenbergIII · #35 (**permalink**) August 15th, 2008, 04:57 PM

Sure sounds like a plan doesn't it? LOL