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| What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb? |

August 16th, 2008, 12:44 AM
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Changes in the West
What if, and it is a what if.....
The Eastern front was a secondary effort for the Germans. Less than half the Russians there were. I mean it stabilized to a point where only "half" as many German troops & materials were needed to get/hold enough of what they wanted and in the West "Two" fronts were approaching the German occupation of France.
Italy/Balkans as a non-factors as another front stabilized in Egypt, with no clear winner/dominator, and no hope (either way) to be anything but a dissatisfied stalemate.
A beachhead in Northern France (perhaps East of Normandy) was established and beginning to move, and the one in the South has already gone through 1/3rd of France North.
The Germans had the French Navy with the Italian Navy manned and operational. The Allies were hard pressed to hold the Southern beaches/Gibraltar, and had a weekly scrap on their hands, but were holding their own.
Would the Wehrmacht be able to hold and advance against Allied Air Power ?
A question about the viability of Air Power, that so many "Diss" as an insignificant sideline to fighting on the ground ? Would the Tank/Artillery/Infantry units be able to function against (probably) half the Air Power the Allies fielded (as the other half would be engaged with their Luftwaffe counterparts) ?
I think the big Bombers would have new targets, but then production and morale (in Germany) would be greater ?
How would this turn out ?, only with time, luck, and of course different circumstances.
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August 16th, 2008, 12:48 PM
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Re: Changes in the West
I think you need to flesh this one out a bit more. How about selecting a particular POD (point of departure) and go from there explaining how this situation would evolve. It almost sounds like you have a German victory in the East (even with a victory huge numbers of troops might well be required for occupational duties).
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August 16th, 2008, 02:25 PM
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Re: Changes in the West
Time frame for Southern France mid 43, for NW France & now (the game) early 44.
It's imaginary (a war game)(no basis other than that). The Germans have stalemate everywhere except inside France, but now they have "Fully" half their forces to defend/react against invading Armies from two directions.
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August 18th, 2008, 08:38 AM
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Re: Changes in the West
There is certainly a lot of what ifs here, but Ok I wiill let them slide except this
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A question about the viability of Air Power, that so many "Diss" as an insignificant sideline to fighting on the ground?
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Air power is the key to victory, who ever rules the skies rules the land, but at the same time you need a sizable land force well trained and supplied to hold the front.
Now why would the Strategic bombers change targets? They would still target the Factories to lower production of figthers, tanks, infantry weapons and so on. The Airfields in France and Germany would still be pounded by waves of fighter bombers from the allied forces.
Quote:
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I think the big Bombers would have new targets, but then production and morale (in Germany) would be greater ?
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Hictorically, production increased during the the blitz of Germany by the Allied bombers, so in theory morale would be lower so their would be less production numbersm in terms of your scenario.
In all your scenario is impossible, but nonetheless, to answer the question it wouldn't cahnge anything, for the Russians would call up more divisions and simply swarm over the Germans with their half historical sized army, much faster then normal due to their being no army.
Just one question, where is the rest of the men?
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August 18th, 2008, 11:47 AM
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Re: Changes in the West
The toughest part of "what ifs" is that everyone expects you to prove something that didn't happen did, something that couldn't happen could, and wouldn't - would & the rest.
Prove imagination false, and there's no need to use imagination.
Duh, it didn't happen for a reason. I/we are not (as most love to do) trying to disprove the possibility of it happening, but imagining a different outcome if it did.
I can't prove why every front is where it is, manpower status is where it is, and the time frame is where it is....it just is....because it's a what if.
I was thinking along the lines of tank concentrations being impossible to either conceal or move. Artillery being put down as soon as it revealed it's position. Stopping logistical operations completely. Pretty much along the lines of what "fat boy" Goering always claimed but, seldom/if ever produced.
Good point of "key" to victory, and Infantry to hold.
Neither is champion without the other.
Combined arms. If you want to win that is.
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August 20th, 2008, 08:29 AM
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Re: Changes in the West
Quote:
Originally Posted by skunk works
Combined arms. If you want to win that is.
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Exactly the reason why the German blitzkrieg tatics were so effective, combined arms. 
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