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What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

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Old September 11th, 2008, 10:09 PM
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Default Soviet aircraft carriers

What if the Soviets received carriers, such as Casablanca class CVEs, like Great Britain did? Or even had squadrons on RN or USN carriers? Could this have helped them battle the Germans? Would it have brought them out to the Pacific?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

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Originally Posted by wh1skea View Post
What if the Soviets received carriers, such as Casablanca class CVEs, like Great Britain did? Or even had squadrons on RN or USN carriers? Could this have helped them battle the Germans? Would it have brought them out to the Pacific?
It would depend on when they received them and how much training and experience that they would have. And where they used them. The Baltic,Black Sea, North Atlantic?Like the Germans the Soviets had no experince in in operating carriers or carrier warfare nor the trained pilots and aircrew to do so. And how do YOU think it would help against the Germans? And do you mean out to the Pacific earlier? They had no reason to attack the Japanese earlier. Or using them in 1945?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Aircrfact Carriers for the Soviets would have been useless. The training of men, modified planes, whole new doctrine not to mention escort ships etc. just wasnt worth it. The war in Russia was "tank paradise".
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Old September 11th, 2008, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Assuming that the Soviets had experience in carrier operations, there really was nowhere that those carriers would be effective. Perhaps in the North Sea protecting convoys. If they were in the Black Sea, I think the Luftwaffe would have made short work of them. So I don't think it would have altered the war one bit. The Soviets like Germany were land warriors...........at the time.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Exactly.They would have had little impact on the land war and that is where the two were largely engaged.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 02:02 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

They did receive other countless ships, Battleships, cruisers and destroyers I believe.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

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Originally Posted by Hawkerace View Post
They did receive other countless ships, Battleships, cruisers and destroyers I believe.
Looks like not as countless as you believe.

Lend Lease Ship Names
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Old September 12th, 2008, 03:00 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

"The Light Cruiser USS Milwaukee became the MURMANSK; a list of 10 coastal minesweepers were given to the Soviets during and after WWII.
Approximately 44 sub chasers, class 47 and 46 sub chasers, class 497, were transferred to the Soviets.
Some 77 PT (motor torpedo) boats, classes 37, 71 and 103 were given to the Soviets. In the case of “Vosper” type PT boats, 12 were built in the U.S. for the Soviet Union in 1937 and 1938.
Through the lend/lease program, the U.S. gave four YMS calss 347 minsweepers and 10 136-foot hull minsweepers to the Soviets.
The U.S. also gave the Soviets several ships equipped to accomplish several specialized tasks such as weather watching, logicital support and surveillance. U.S. Coast Guard ships USCG Eastwind, Westwind and Northwind became the ADMIRAL MAKAROV, the SEVERNY POLYUS and SEVERNY VETER respectively. "

Idaho Observer: Lend-Lease program helped Cold War adversary
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Old September 12th, 2008, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Good link JC.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloniksp View Post
Aircrfact Carriers for the Soviets would have been useless. The training of men modified planes, whole new doctrine not to mention escort ships etc. just wasnt worth it. The war in Russia was "tank paradise".
Agreed, other equipment would be more valuable and the Russians were more than a match for the Japanese on land.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
"The Light Cruiser USS Milwaukee became the MURMANSK; a list of 10 coastal minesweepers were given to the Soviets during and after WWII.
Approximately 44 sub chasers, class 47 and 46 sub chasers, class 497, were transferred to the Soviets.
Some 77 PT (motor torpedo) boats, classes 37, 71 and 103 were given to the Soviets. In the case of “Vosper” type PT boats, 12 were built in the U.S. for the Soviet Union in 1937 and 1938.
Through the lend/lease program, the U.S. gave four YMS calss 347 minsweepers and 10 136-foot hull minsweepers to the Soviets.
The U.S. also gave the Soviets several ships equipped to accomplish several specialized tasks such as weather watching, logicital support and surveillance. U.S. Coast Guard ships USCG Eastwind, Westwind and Northwind became the ADMIRAL MAKAROV, the SEVERNY POLYUS and SEVERNY VETER respectively. "

Idaho Observer: Lend-Lease program helped Cold War adversary
The British gave what I what I'd call more lending, the Hms Royal Sovereign was given to the Russians late in the war aswell?
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Old September 12th, 2008, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

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Originally Posted by Hawkerace View Post
The British gave what I what I'd call more lending, the Hms Royal Sovereign was given to the Russians late in the war aswell?
There was that one battleship and also 8 Town Class destroyers ,ex-US Wickes Class, which were part of the original 50 destroyers for bases deal and 27 Colony Class frigates. And oddly enough ,in regards to the original question,the Escort Carrier HMS FENCER. Though it wasn't used for flight operations.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

I say in the end that does deserve the over exaggerated previous statement of "countless" ;P

And after the war, the did also receive Italian naval booty aswell. Seems the navy got a little be further in terms of strength over the years without doing much .
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

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I say in the end that does deserve the over exaggerated previous statement of "countless" ;P

And after the war, the did also receive Italian naval booty aswell. Seems the navy got a little be further in terms of strength over the years without doing much .
Depends on your definition of "Countless" LOL. Obviously it is used just the same for some as a "handfiul" .
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Old September 13th, 2008, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

ah well.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Really??? "Countless" is usually meant to mean too numerous to number. The Soviets were not given that huge of an amount. . Sorry Im in a honery mood today LOL .
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Old September 13th, 2008, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

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Originally Posted by PzJgr View Post
The Soviets like Germany were land warriors...........at the time.
Overall sure, tho the Soviet navy and naval infantry as well as the RKKA conducted many amphibious operations. Comando raids, and small tactical operations along the Baltic and Black Sea shores were common. There were several amphibious ops on the Korean coast against the Japanese in 1945.

The one location a Soviet carrier might have been of any value would be in the northern waters, along the Murmansk convoy routes. Having a couple small carriers based on the east end of the route, for anti submarine and reconissance ops, would have been usefull in protecting the convoys.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

I think it wouldn't be hard to acquire a carrier and at least train and acquire more knowledge about the doctrine for the cold war.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Origins

The Soviet aircraft carrier program got off to a late start; this slow beginning, like so many important things in history, may be attributed to a unique mixture of historical and political circumstances. The first real opportunity for the beginning of an aircraft carrier program was in the late 1930s, when world naval aviation was just beginning to take off. Any earlier beginning would have been impossible for a Soviet Union just industrializing under the first Five-Year Plans. At least one authoritative source claims that Stalin wasted no time in seizing the opportunity, however, and that "planning for two aircraft carriers had already begun in the 1930s."1 In any case, the war intervened, and the new program had to be aborted in favor of more pressing defense needs, ending any hope of the Soviets' getting an early start.
In the immediate post-war years, an evaluation of the USN's carrier experience in the Pacific may have prompted plans for an aircraft carrier fleet, but the costs of recovering from the war's devastation probably delayed any large-scale carrier design and building program. The maintenance of the Red Army's land power in Eastern Europe no doubt took precedence over any revolutionary new steps the Navy might wish to take. Nevertheless, with the Soviet Union's relatively rapid recovery from the war, plans were drafted for the construction of a new class of aircraft carriers, to begin before 1950.2 These plans never came to fruition. With Stalin's death in 1953, and Khrushchev's subsequent ascension amidst much internal controversy over defense spending, aircraft carriers were put on permanent hold. Khrushchev's negative attitude toward the maintenance of large conventional forces made aircraft carriers -- the epitome of the large, expensive conventional weapon eclipsed by nuclear weapons -- a good target for cancellation. At a time when Khrushchev was announcing his drastic 1959 cut in conventional forces (putting 1.2 million officers and men out of uniform), extravagant spending on aircraft carriers seemed unlikely. This remained true even after the announcement was retracted and the buildup of 1960 began; Khrushchev remained adamantly opposed to carrier development.

A Brief Look at Russian Aircraft Carrier Development
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Old September 13th, 2008, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Soviet aircraft carriers

Russia never had air-superiority while fighting the Germans, they had sheer numbers on their side. Another failure on the German side, along with focusing on Stalin