I had recently read that there were incidents where Finnish Ski patrols had some engagements out on the ice with ski equipped Soviet sailors from Soviet ships that were stranded in the ice during the Siege of Leningrad. Has any one heard of this and where there might be some more information?

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

I posted this on the General Discussion Forum too. I thought it might be more appropriate here.

I had recently read that there were incidents where Finnish Ski patrols had some engagements out on the ice with ski equipped Soviet sailors from Soviet ships that were stranded in the ice during the Siege of Leningrad. Has any one heard of this and where there might be some more information?

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

I know both sides made several reconnaissance patrols towards each other, actually I think during war every night in the winter time. There were some bigger clashes, as there were some islands to be taken like Suursaari. I guess the Finns outmaneuvred the Red Army with skis but not very surprised about that.

I´ll see if there´s some nete sites about these.

__________________

was just going to say from the experience in the northern winter war the Finns outdid the Soviets nearly every time though the Soviets obviously had the upper hand with heavy weapons and armor which relly does not matter even in this day and age during cold white winter months, that I can tell you from fact..........

You would sure think that the Finnish troopers were definately better then Soviet sailors when it came to skiing LOL. You would have thought that the Soviets would have others that may have been better trained at sking then sailors.

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Never heard of it. Where was this supposed to have happened? On lake Ladoga or on the Baltic? To my knowledge the Russians never lost any ships or barges to ice on the lake, bombs yes. Oct, Nov was when they took them off because of freezing. Possible but I haven't heard of it.

This is where I read about this "The Volga rises in Europe" by Curzio Malaparte. In it he stated that there were incidents where Finnish Ski patrols had some engagements out on the ice with ski equipped Soviet sailors from Soviet ships of the Baltic Fleet that were stranded in the ice during the Siege of Leningrad. I was hoping that there might be some more information out there on this.

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Some sites on this:


FMP - Coastal Defence 1941 - 1944

Axis History Forum :: Schlittengeräte

Finnish navy in Continuation War, year 1942

__________________

Thanks for the links. So far I still can't find any additional info on the Baltic Fleet actions .

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Anyone know how the sailors were armed and what they had for equipment?

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Errrr, regular infantry armament? You know, rifles and such? Or perhaps dog-sled pulled 8" naval guns?

__________________

JEEZ. HMMMM. I was looking more for what they wore for winter wear on the ice, uniforms and if they used machineguns in addition to rifles and submachine guns and what was the distribution of weapons? More rifles or submachine guns? Were they just equipped for raids or for longer period of times? Did they use sleds or sledges? You know things like that.

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Seriously now, the several Fleets had all surplus personnel converted to marine infantry, using regular infantry kit and at least in summer usual navy uniforms. I'll assume that in winter they will have been issued with appropriate cold weather army uniforms, but I said "assume", I never really became interested in that.

All through the Leningrad siege there was a number of enclaves by the Baltic sea shore that were never taken, and were held by this marine infantry. Another interesting employment was in the several combat landing operations performed by the Black Sea Fleet.

__________________

Machinge gun sled



though I would rather been on this then on skis LOL

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

JC, Kai, thanks for this stuff. Now that im just starting to get back in the swing of things, I have lots to catch up on-especially on East Front stuff ;-D

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

My pleasure again . There is so much more out there then just the Germans and Soviets LOL .

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Heh heh, hard to believe that that is so true ;-))

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Yeah. Funny how there were Finns,Italians,Romanians,Spaniards and a few other countries also involved in addition to other foriegn units.

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Heh heh, that, and a Flemish friend of mine was at that Siege-not sure how long though?

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

LOL Didn't realise that I had made two threads. Had them merged .

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Here's a book that describes the incident quite well:

Amazon.com: White Death: Russia's War with Finland 1939-1940: Robert Edwards: Books

(Never mind the negative reviews, the readers have not understood what it's all about. I have read it twice and it is highly recommended.)


RAM

Thanks. Ill have to look that up

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.