Hallo! I would like to have your opinion in most important German generals, but as it is impossible to talk about everyone, please, simply qualify them from 0 to 10 or from - to * * * * *, Taking on account that a field marshall's responsabilities in WAR time are too command LARGE number of troops, OK?

Here we go, first all field marshalls, except for Werner von Blomberg, who did not take part in the war.

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring: 8.0

GFM Fedor von Bock: 9.8
GFM Walther von Brauchitsch: 9.1
GFM Wilhelm Keitel: 6.0
GFM Wilhelm Ritter von Leeb: 9.8
GFM Gerd von Runstedt: 9.9
GFM Günther von Kluge: 9.5
GFM Wather von Reichenau: 9.0
GFM Wilhelm List: 9.4
GFM Erwin von Witzleben: 7.9
GFM Ernst Busch: 9.3
GFM Georg von Küchler: 8.8
GFM Friedrich von Paulus: 8.9
GFM Erwin Johannes Rommel: 9.1
GFM Erich von Manstein: 9.95
GFM Ewald von Kleist: 9.2
GFM Walther Model: 9.4
GFM Maximilian von Weichs: 8.8
GFM Ferdinand Schörner: 8.1
GFM Hugo Sperrle: 8.8
GFM Albert Kesselring: 9.5
GFM Erhard Milch: 9.2
GFM Robert Ritter von Greim: 8.4
GFM Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen: 8.9
Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler: 4.1
Grossadmiral Karl Dönitz: 9.9
Grossadmiral Erich Raeder: 9.8

Then, another important ones:

GO Hermann Hoth: 9.7
GO Franz Halder: 9.6
GO Kurt Zeitzler: 8.7
GO Alfred Jodl: 7.0
GO Heinz Guderian: 9.3
GO Eduard Dietl: 9.5
GO Gottard Heinrici: 9.3
GO Georg Hans Reinhardt: 9.2
GO Hans Jürgen von Arnim: 8.3
GO Friedrich Dollmann: 8.1
Oberstgruppenführer Josef Dietrich: 8.9
GO Erich Hoeppner: 9.0

GdP Hasso von Manteuffel: 9.0

Anyone would you like to add?

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring: 5.0

GFM Fedor von Bock: 9.0
GFM Walther von Brauchitsch: 7.0
GFM Wilhelm Keitel: 1.0
GFM Wilhelm Ritter von Leeb: ????
GFM Gerd von Runstedt: 9.0
GFM Günther von Kluge: 9.0
GFM Wather von Reichenau: 9.0
GFM Wilhelm List: 9.0
GFM Erwin von Witzleben: ????
GFM Ernst Busch: ???? <==Not heard of him
GFM Georg von Küchler: ????
GFM Friedrich von Paulus: 6.0
GFM Erwin Johannes Rommel: 9.0
GFM Erich von Manstein: 9.5
GFM Ewald von Kleist: 9.5
GFM Walther Model: 9.5
GFM Maximilian von Weichs: 7.0
GFM Ferdinand Schörner: 6.0
GFM Hugo Sperrle: 7.0
GFM Albert Kesselring: 10
GFM Erhard Milch: 9.0
GFM Robert Ritter von Greim: ????
GFM Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen: ????
Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler: 9.0
Grossadmiral Karl Dönitz: 9.0
Grossadmiral Erich Raeder: 9.0

Then, another important ones:

GO Hermann Hoth: 10
GO Franz Halder: 9.0
GO Kurt Zeitzler: ????
GO Alfred Jodl: 1.0
GO Heinz Guderian: 10
GO Eduard Dietl: 9.5
GO Gottard Heinrici: 10
GO Georg Hans Reinhardt: ????
GO Hans Jürgen von Arnim: ????
GO Friedrich Dollmann: ????
Oberstgruppenführer Josef Dietrich: 9.5
GO Erich Hoeppner: 9.0
GdP Hasso von Manteuffel: 10

???? = Generals whom I have no knowledge so therefore cannot rate.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Soon as I have more time--ill give ya my picks.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Göring - 0.1

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„Solange man nicht mit dem Kopf unterm Arm rumläuft geht es doch noch!" Erwin Rommel

GO Heinrich von Viettinghof: 9.0

Arqchitect Albert Speer: 10

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I'm no expert on this but -
The ones that interest me are :

von Manteuffel 9.6
Model 9.5
Kesselring 9.3 ( for defence in Italy )

How do you guys rate Bittrich ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Is that all you respond, Martin? Mmmmmmrrrr.

I would give (what was his rank? GL?) Wilhelm Bittrich a 9.1 for his counteroffensive in Arhnem.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Looks like I'll be peeling potatoes again . . .

Bittrich was indeed Generalleutnant.
When I've finished the potatoes and scrubbbed the latrines I'll go through your list...
(Stamp!) Right turn! (Stamp!) Marched from room in disgrace

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

No, I have seen you have been just promoted!

Congratulations! Put the peeler away and take a rifle! No, wait, such a wise soldier who reads so much should be at the Headquarters!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

OK, here we go.
Names marked * I just don't know enough about to venture an opinion - marvel at the gaps in my knowledge !

Goring 5.5
v Bock *
v Brauchitsch*
Keitel 5.0
v Leeb *
v Rundstedt 9.8
v Kluge 8.7
v Reichmann *
List *
v Witzleben 7.0
Busch *
v Kuchler *
v Paulus 8.8
Rommel 9.1
v Manstein 9.8
v Kleist 9.0
Model 9.5
v Weichs *
Schorner 8.0
Sperrle 8.0
Kesselring 9.3
v Greim 8.5
v Richthofen 9.0
Himmler 3.0
Donitz 9.5
Raeder 9.0
Hoth *
Halder 9.5
Jodl 6.0
Guderian 9.6
Dietl *
Heinrici 9.2
Reinhardt *
v Arnim 8.7
Dollmann *
Dietrich 9.0
Hoeppner 8.8
v Manteuffel 9.6
and
Bittrich 9.1

Ranks ? Hey, I'm just a soldier, mate ! I just know to snap a salute and keep my head down if any of these guys drive past . . . . .

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Au Contrare....Correct title =
SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Au Contrare...Correct title is
SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Thanks, Martin!

Thanks, PzJgr! Obergruppenführer, that!

And what happens?

As I see you do not know plenty about the following officers, so I will tell you some tales about them, OK?

GFM Ritter Wilhelm von Leeb (1876-1956). Artillery officer. Best conservative deffensive tactician in Germany. He had a major role in smashing the "Bierputsch" in 1923. Disdained Hiter and the nazies and was followed by the Gestapo.

He commanded Heeresgruppe C, in the Sigfried line. He did not like the idea of violating Belgium's neutrality for the second time in 30 years but took the "Sichelschnitt" well. Appointed leader of 1. Armee (v. Witzleben) and 7. Armee (Dollmann), 19 infantry divisions in total kept his positions until June 1940, when he used heavy artillery, air-craft, flame-throwers etc. and took the Maginot line. Promoted field marshall for this on July 19th 1940.

Then he commanded Heeresgruppe Nord in "Barbarossa", conquested the Baltic countries and put Leningrad under sieg. He asked for retirement and Hitler agreed. He refused to get involved in July's plot.

GO Friedrich Dollmann. Commanded 7. Armee and took the Maginot line in 1940, promoted GO. He organised 7. Armee along the Atlantic wall. he died from a heart attack on July 1944 and awarded Eichenlaub posthumously.

GFM Ernst Busch. Nazism supporter. Commanded 16. Armee through the Ardennes in 1940 and in Northern Russia under von Leeb in 1941. He commanded then Heeresgruppe Mitte (I think) in 1943 and was promoted GFM. He died of a respiratorial desease in British captivity, 1945.

GFM Georg von Küchler. Nazism supporter. Commanded 18. Armme through Holland and supervised Holland's surrender in 1940. then he took his 18. Armee to Northern Russia. Suceeded Von Leeb as commander of Heeresgruppe Nord in 1941 until 1943. Promoted GFM in february 1943.

GO Georg Hans Reinhardt. Major Panzer ace. Leaded one of the Panzerkorps of Panzergruppe "Von Klesit" through the Ardennes and later a Panzerarmee in Russia.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Interesting information Friedrich. Thanks.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Thanks, Friedrich.
I'm obviously not up to speed on German personalities from the earlier part of the war.
Quite right, PzJgr. The first book to hand got it wrong - I must learn to double-check! [img]redface.gif[/img]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

No problem Martin and I would rate Bittrich a 10. He is one of my favorites. Awesome tactician. Generals like him gave the Waffen SS credibility as fighting soldiers.

[ 26 June 2002, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: PzJgr ]

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Always a pleasure.

But what happens with the rest? Otto, Erich, Karl, Stevin, etc.

I'm waiting for you...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Friedrich, Dude....

I find it very hard to rate officers. All I know is what I have read; these men's (sometimes colored) own accounts and other people's interpretations of their actions. I am hardly in a position to judge these men's actions. It isn't easy, even with hindsight, to come to a just appreciation of people's actions. And then you have the added difficulty of their military accomplishments and the political intricacies (sp?)involved. There were generals who were very good defensively, but forced by Hitler to be constantly on the offense, which surely influenced their descisions.

Therefor, I can only speak in general; I haven't had the opportunity to study in depth the (military) decisions of commanders, so I have only limited knowledge, or a opinion, about the abilities of high ranking officers. Manstein, without doubt, was a gifted military commander, but on the political side of things (which are inevitable on that level) he left much do be desired. Again, a opinion spoken 60 years after the events.

What I can tell you is that I have always had a admiration for General Heinrici during the battle of Berlin, based on Cornelius Ryan's book. Of course Rommel carries cloud. As do many other generals. I have always liked Gen. James M. Gavin of the 82nd Airborne, based on his way of leadership and the way his soldiers spoke of him. I guess that is my main measure for judging Generals, etc. How did their soldiers think about them....

I just have to laugh at the clownesk apperance of Goering, when I read about him or see a picture. Remember the movie Battle Of Britain? A caricature. I cannot help but feel how sad a person Rudolf Hess must have been, when I see a picture or read about him. Same with Himmler. Or most of that whole top nazi clicque.

All I can say is that with rating these men, I mostly go on what their soldiers say about them. How they lead their men. How their descisions came to be. On a 'lower' level I tend to look up to a man like Christian Tychsen.

A more recent example; when I was in the army I served with several Dutch veterans from screbenica. They always talked with a lot of respect and admiration for Capt. Groen. Col. Karremans, the CO, was never seen on the front-lines. He was involved in all the politics of that time. He needed to be. The running of daily affairs and the defense of the enclave was left to Capt. Groen. They all say that thanks to his abilities/desicions there were no more casualties among the Dutch troops. (this might sound controversial in light of what happened). My buddy said he was deeply frustrated about what happened but decided to stay in the army because of people like Capt. Groen. I guess this illustrates what I mean by me rating officers.

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

Anyway! Thanks for the response, Stevin! I always appreciate your commets! And be sure these are not the exception!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Herr General !

This is really tough as I have never looked into the backgrounds of any of these offiziers.....this sounds crazy but it is the truth. The highest ranking German offizier I have interviewed had the rank of Major during the war. I have no interest in the upper eschelons of service just the lower ranking fighting mann who did all the dirty work of battle. These soldiers are the ones that interest me. Sorry

E