Book by: John Weal.

Just picked up at Barnes and Nobles lastnight. This book seems to be pretty interesting. I like the pics--most of which I have never seen before, and I like the stats.

From just 70 pilots listed in the back of the book and totalling their entire score togetther is a staggering 12,271 (or thereabouts) victories by just 70 German pilots. This tally also includes their victories in other areas outside the Eastern Front. Now take just their victories on the Eastern Front--and the tally of these 70 men--would still be around 12,000 victories.

Truely amazing numbers.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Guys :

I sent a private to Carl this morn about this title, but would like to add......and I think it is an Osprey book ? some good little titles for the monies even though the profiles are a bit odd/lavish.
A little tid-bit.....the highest scoring geschwader was JG 52 with over 11,000 victories alone ! Nearly all on the Ost front.
JG 54 with well over 9400 victories and again nearly 5/8ths on the Ost front.
JG 51 with much of it's career on the Ost front, scored over 9,000 victories.... !

E

Thanks my friend--it is an Osprey title. Good LORD--appx 29,000 victories in the Ost Front--its a wonder the Allies won!

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl, if my mind seers me well and it hasn't all week......I think the Ost Front figure is somewhere in the 40,000 a/c range !!! this would include Soviet a/c destroyed by ground attck fighters when the Soviet fighters are in the air, JG 7 Me 262's the last 2 1/2 months of the war. And the stats are impressive I ust say. Luftwaffe bomber gunners claims against Soviet a/c and even recon Bf 109's which shot down a few, with one pilot I know of with 7 victories with just 2 mg 131's fitted.

E

Like I say--its a wonder that we won the war.

PS, I just finished sending you a PM with 2 links for a fighter spange.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Thanks Carl ! Checked them out but will have to pass. Peter has some nice stuff though ! but the clasp is just too plain and worn off. The German chap's scans are terrible and the clasp's are for day fighter only but are hard to see as the scans are not sharp. One of those wound badges from Peter look awfully tasty though....schwarze mit LDO box

E

Those cased wound badgers are at decent prices. Peter just updated his site I think today? and look at all that is sold. Its another feeding frenzy--just like on Detlevs site.

Im VERY tempted at the silver wound badges--VERY tempted. I just bought one from a friend in Germany earlier this month. ite not mint--but is a nice one. Ill have to get gary to post pics of it as well as my other wound badges. All I need is a ww1 Gold Wound badge--which ill probably buy from Herr Baldes or somebody like him.

After that--ill probably buy the Black and Silver Kondor Legion Wound badges. There is no Gold Wound Badge for the Legion as none were ever presented. After that--ill have to get all the ww1 German navy Wound badges--these are getting very expensive.

To have a complete collection--i need only 6 more wound badges. Actually I would need 9 badges--if you include the 1957 badges.

I have nice examples of all the ww2 examples--and only black and silver ww1 badges.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Yep I here ya there friend. Those two in black look very nice, wish I had the funds at present but something will show up.
He has some very nice items, too bad they go so fast....

E

Its a big-time feeding frenzy on German Militaria. At least I was able to buy a unique photo from Peter. This is the one taken of a Frainch Colonial Soldier captured sometime during the Frainch Campaign. He is in a tent made of Zeltbahns--looking at the camera. A sign stands outside of his tent with the caption of: Sensation des Tages, Gefangenen (expletive) saying he was captured in the Frainch Western Army.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Major Luftwaffe aces 1936-1945

Name Number of Victories

Hauptmann Erich Hartmann 352 *

Major Gerhard Barkhorn 301

Hauptmann Günther Rall 275

Oberleutnant Otto Kittel 267

Major Walther Nowótny 258 *

Major Wilhem Batz 239

Major Erich Rudorffer 224

Oberstleutnant Heinz Edgar Bär 221

Oberst Hermann Graf 212 *

Major Theodor Weissenberger 208

Major Heinrich Ehrler 208

Oberstleutnant Hans Philipp 206

Oberleutnant Walter Schuck 206

Oberleutnant Anton Hafner 204

Hauptmann Helmut Lipfert 203

Hauptmann Walter Krupinski 197

Major Anton Hackl 192

Hauptmann Joachim Brendel 189

Oberleutnant Max Stotz 189

Hauptmann Joachim Kirschner 188

Major Kurt Hans Brändle 180

Oberleutnant Günther Josten 178

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff 178

Hauptmann Günther Schack 174

Hauptmann Ernst Wilhelm Reinert 174

Hauptmann Emil Lang 173

Oberleutnant Heinz Schmidt 173

Hauptmann Horst Ademeit 166

Oberst Wolf Dietrich Wilcke 162

Hauptmann Hans Joachim Marseille 158 *

Hauptmann Heinrich Sturm 158

Oberleutnant Gerhard Thyben 157

Leutnant Peter Düttmann 152

Oberleutnant Hans Beissbenger 152

Oberst Gordon M. Gollob 150 *

Oberleutnant Fritz Tegtmeier 146

Oberleutnant Albin Wolf 144

Major Friedrich Karl Müller 140

Hauptmann Rudolf Trenkel 138

Hauptmann Heinrich Setz 138

Unteroffizier Karl Gratz 138

Oberleutnant Walter Wolfrum 137

Oberleutnant Otto Vönnekold 136

Oberst Adolf Dickfeld 136

Oberleutnant Karl Heinz Weber 136

Major Joachim Münchenberger 135

Oberleutnant Hans Waldmann 134

Hauptmann Alfred Grislawsky 133

Major Johannes Wiese 133

Hauptmann Franz Schall 133

Major Adolf Borchers 132

Oberst Herbert Ihlefeld 132

Major Erwin Clausen 132

Hauptmann Wilhelm Lemke 131

Major Franz Eisenach 129

Hauptmann Franz Döhr 128

Oberst Walther Dahl 128

Oberst Walter Oesau 127

Oberleutnant Wolf Udo Ettel 124

Oberfedwebel Heinz Marquardt 121

Major Hans Wolfang Schnauffer 121 N *

Hauptmann Robert Weiss 121

Major Erich Leie 121

Unteroffizier Friedrich Wachowiak 120

Oberleutnant Friedrich Obleser 120

Oberst Werner Mölders 115 *

Leutnant Wilhelm Crinius 114

Major Werner Schroer 114

Oberst Helmuth Lent 113 N *

Oberstleutnant Kurt Bühlingen 112

Oberst Günther Lützow 110

Major Hans Hahn 108

Hauptmann Werner Lucas 106

Major Viktor Bauer 106

Generalleutnant Adolf Galland 104 *

Hauptmann Josef Wurmheller 102

Major Egon Mayer 102

Major Sigfried Freytag 102

Hauptmann Josef Priller 101

Leutnant Ulrich Wernitz 101

TOTAL 12578

* Awarded with Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds.

N Night Fighter Pilot.

[ 28 September 2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: General der Infanterie Friedrich H ]

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Good going Friedrich--now if you can just get me the url for that brazilian website that has EVERY German ace listed--all the way down to I think 10 victories.

Friedrich--find that website for me and ill send you "Escape To Athena" as a reward.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl, not to hijack the info with F, but there is no site that includes every Luftwaffe ace known.
Second, go to Michael Holms site which is under Luftwaffe Histories on your search engines.
Go to aces listings on the left boxe(s)and you will find a listing which is pretty good giving from the top honch down to aces with 7 abschusse.....about 30 pages long......
The listing will also list in some form the units that the men were part of, not all correct but for the most part they are, and what awards they wer given down to the EP. It would of been nice if Friedrich in his listing could tell us who fought on the Ost and also on the West Fronts, so F, do some homework !!!! then I will make further comments....

E

Thanks for this Erich. Only there was a site that was from South America--and I think it was Brazil. I do not know if it was a complete list or not but--it went from Erich Hartmanns score down to 10 victories. For the life of me--I have no clue at whos site it is or where it is. I had it in an old email from some friends of mine from Virginia, but I deleted it along time ago. I think I might have posted this link somewhere on these forums at sometime. I guess I can click through all of the topics I ever posted--if they are all still able to be here--that is--and ill let you see it and judge on it.

I definately will check out the site you mentioned, and many thanks my friend.

Also, as soon as I recieve the request--I have a friend who is going to send me a pic of a Luftwaffe pilot from JG 27, and he is wanting to see if we can ID him--ill let you know as soon as I get the email from him. [img]smile.gif[/img]

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Why would he offer me that otherwise? [img]tongue.gif[/img] He knows that I could never get it...

You would have said that two months ago when I made the research, because of the books and web pages I used as sources said very clearly how many victories were achieved in the West and how many in the East by each pilot...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Don't get frustrated my young German friend, it would only take you better part of two years to find every kill of every German ace with 100 victories or more. Carl, give him the book anyway or whatever it is !! To simplify for you gents and please bookmark this......Carl, I'll take my signed pic from Remmy now !!!

www.ww2.dk/misc/lwace2.txt

as I mentioned not every ace is listed as I know two/three and more night fighter pilots that are not even mentioned. Also I think somewhere in the buried posts of last year, Friedrich gave this same listing and I added some details of how many Il-2's were destroyed by certain front aces.

E

Major German Aces of the Eastern Front (1941-1945)

Rank Name East West Total
Hptm. Erich Hartmann 346 6 352
Maj. Gerhard Barkhorn 301 0 301
Hptm. Günther Rall 271 4 275
Oblt. Otto Kittel 267 0 267
Maj. Walter Nowótny 255 3 258
Maj. Wilhelm Batz 233 4 239
Obst. Hermann Graf 202 10 212
Hptm. Helmut Lipfert 200 3 203
Maj. Heinrich Ehrler 198 10 208
Oblt. Walter Schuck 189 17 206
Hptm. Joachim Brendel 189 0 189
Oblt. Anton Hafner 184 20 204
Obstlt. Hans Philipp 178 28 206
Hptm. Walter Krupinski 177 20 197
Oblt. Günther Josten 177 1 178
Maj. Theodor Weissenberger 175 33 208
Hptm. Günther Schack 174 0 174
Oblt. Max Stotz 173 16 189
Oblt. Heinz Schmidt 173 0 173
Hptm. Joachim Kirschner 167 21 188
Hptm. Horst Ademeit 164 2 166
Maj. Kurt Hans Friedrich Brändle 160 20 180
Hptm. Heinrich Sturm 158 0 158
Oblt. Gerhard Thyben 152 5 157
Lt. Peter Düttmann 152 0 152
Oblt. Hans Beisswenger 151 1 152
Obst. Johannes Steinhoff 148 28 178
Oblt. Fritz Tegtmeier 146 0 146
Hptm. Emil Lang 144 29 173
Obst. Gordon M. Gollob 144 6 150
Oblt. Albin Wolf 144 0 144
Maj. Erich Rudorffer 138 86 224
Obst. Wolf-Dietrich Wilcke 137 25 162
Hptm. Rudolf Trenkel 137 1 138
Oblt. Walter Wolfrum 137 0 137
Oblt. Otto Vönnekold 136 0 136
Oblt. Karl-Heinz Weber 136 0 136
Maj. Johannes Wiese 133 0 133
Hptm. Heinrich Setz 132 6 138
Maj. Adolf Borchers 132 0 132

[ 29 September 2002, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: General der Infanterie Friedrich H ]

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Good listing Friedrich but sorry I have to disagree with some of the totals listed.....

Examples for start. It is reported that Nowotny had 280 kills with 1 US bomber
Batz, 237 kills 2 US bombers
Erich Rudorffer 222 kills, 10 US bombers and 58 Il-2's. His total kills claim has been studyied for some years and it maybe quite flase as he climed kills from other staffeln mates.
Joachim Müncheberg had 135 kills and received the Swords
Johannes Wiese may of had a total of 208 kills with 50 Il-2's.

E

Did I hear that a pic was wanted? Fancy you should mention wanting a pic I FINALLY got your package in the mail this morning. They said it would take 6 days to get there. Wait'll you see whats in the package. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I put a few long awaited things in there as well as a few things I had not mentioned I had before. All of the letters and cards for support to Remy should definately be in his hands by now, and I asked him to sign a pic or two for you if possible.

Anyway--the package that you have been waiting for at least two months for--is finally on its way I was going to keep it a secret for a few days but--what the hey?

You have a few Luftwaffe samples, a Kav sample, a Panzer sample, A Heinrich Hoffmann PLM recipient (lets see if you can guess who he is? if not--lemme know und ich wollt tell you. Oh and I almost forgot--you also have a Kriegsmarine samping as well. Both are HH pics--one of Johann Mohr und der other one which is THE last pic of him on U 181--Kapitanleutnant Wolfgang Luth. By the way--these two pics are VERY similar--wait'll you see them.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Well, Erich. That is why I am posting this here, because if there are any mistakes...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun