Axis

Members: 5,686
Threads: 17,413
Posts: 216,914
Online: 158

Newest Member:
RobertJack

 
 
 
Go Back   World War II Forums > General Discussion > WWII Books and Publications
Register FAQ Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


WWII Books and Publications Discuss and review WWII literature.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 01:10 AM
JCFalkenbergIII's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 5,787
Salute!: 8
Saluted 25 Times in 25 Posts
JCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really nice
Default The Myth of the Eastern Front.

“We have taken perhaps an inordinate amount of time to discuss the Reader’s Digest offerings during the war. Yet, we believe it important to lay the foundation for a dramatic shift in memory that would ensue during the Cold War. Americans encountered a flood of information about the war in the East during the years 1941-1945. This information included detailed narratives about the battles, particularly the decisive Stalingrad conflict and the final chapter, the seizure of Berlin. The chapter also incorporated material from the media – books, newspapers, popular magazines, and radio – which examined with great sympathy the tragedy visited upon Russia by the Germans. These media forms also personalized this suffering and glorified the triumphs of Russian arms and the Russian people. Soon after the war, this memory faded under the strains of emerging USSR-USA tensions, the disappeared to the be replaced by a pro-German version, one that stressed Russian atrocities, German heroism and even a superhuman sacrifice to defend Western culture from the Eastern hordes. Soon, a sizable body of Americans would embrace this German view, profoundly at odds with our wartime understanding. Such a transformation occurred only because of the deep ambivalence Americans always held toward the Communist regime and for Slavic peoples in general, even at the height of the wartime alliance. Nowhere did this ambivalence appear more evident than in the pages of the Reader’s Digest.” (pp. 37-38)

Smelser, Ronald and Edward J. Davis II. The Myth of the Eastern Front: The Nazi-Soviet war in American popular culture. Cambridge University Press. New York. 2008.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Myth-of-the-Eastern-Front/Ronald-M-Smelser/e/9780521712316/
__________________
For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

I'm the "Confederate with a pipe"!! LOL
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 03:16 AM
JCFalkenbergIII's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 5,787
Salute!: 8
Saluted 25 Times in 25 Posts
JCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really niceJCFalkenbergIII is just really nice
Default Re: The Myth of the Eastern Front.

" Soon after the war, this memory faded under the strains of emerging USSR-USA tensions, the disappeared to the be replaced by a pro-German version, one that stressed Russian atrocities, German heroism and even a superhuman sacrifice to defend Western culture from the Eastern hordes. Soon, a sizable body of Americans would embrace this German view, profoundly at odds with our wartime understanding."

I have noticed this in other individuals other then just Americans LOL. And a few posters here lol.
__________________
For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

I'm the "Confederate with a pipe"!! LOL
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 04:03 AM
Sloniksp's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hanging the flag on the Reichstag!
Posts: 3,489
Salute!: 1
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: The Myth of the Eastern Front.

A very interesting read. Thank you. I will be looking forward to the book.

P.S.

The war-gamer sounds like our very own ZA.
__________________
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

T-34/85
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 04:09 AM
CrazyD's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rollin' and Tumblin' on Satan's Rotisserie
Posts: 1,223
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
CrazyD will become famous soon enough
Default Re: The Myth of the Eastern Front.



Anyone who has done the least bit of study would find the German/Russian conflict to have been more or less equally nasty on both sides- so why write an entire book debunking a notion that is inaccurate in the first place?

Sounds to me like the author is taking a view held by a tiny minority, attributing it to popular culture, and proving it false. Quite an achievement there.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the author's aim...
__________________
Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 05:15 AM
Sloniksp's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hanging the flag on the Reichstag!
Posts: 3,489
Salute!: 1
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the roughSloniksp is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: The Myth of the Eastern Front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyD View Post


Anyone who has done the least bit of study would find the German/Russian conflict to have been more or less equally nasty on both sides
Equally nasty? Such a statement only reinforces the authors intensions.

No pun intended.
__________________
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

T-34/85
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 07:11 AM
Za Rodinu's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where Iron Crosses grow
Posts: 7,021
Salute!: 11
Saluted 14 Times in 9 Posts
Za Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: The Myth of the Eastern Front.

Indeed I'd be interesting to read this book, a book not about the war itself but about perceptions on a war.

As for the Reader's Digest, I did read a LOT of them during the Cold War, and I did read a few dating from WW2. Well, let's just say RD presented a 'colourful' view... The ones from Sen. Joe McCarthy's period were tops!

For a more accurate view than the pulp press here is a Foreign Military Studies Office at Ft. Leavenworth, KS publication. Some of you will probably be aware of this already. And Colonel Glantz was a US Army colonel, not a Soviet one

If I may quote at length...

----
Conclusions: The Reconciliation of Myths and Realities

The dominant role of German source materials in shaping American perceptions of the war on the Eastern Front and the negative perception of Soviet source materials have had an indelible impact on the American image of war on the Eastern Front. What has resulted in a series of gross judgments treated as truths regarding operations in the East and Soviet (Red) Army combat performance. The gross judgments appear repeatedly in textbooks and all types of historical works, and they are persistent in the extreme. Each lies someplace between the realm of myth and reality. In summary, a few of these judgments are as follows:

- Weather repeatedly frustrated the fulfillment of German operational aims.
- Soviet forces throughout the war in virtually every operation possessed significant or overwhelming numerical superiority.
- Soviet manpower resources were inexhaustible, hence the Soviets continually ignored human losses.
- Soviet strategic and high level operational leadership was superb. However, lower level leadership (corps and below) was uniformly dismal.
- Soviet planning was rigid, and the execution of plans at every level was inflexible and unimaginative.
- Wherever possible, the Soviets relied for success on mass rather than maneuver. Envelopment operations were avoided whenever possible.
- The Soviets operated in two echelons, never cross attached units, and attacked along straight axes.
- Lend lease was critical for Soviet victory. Without it collapse might have ensured.
- Hitler was the cause of virtually all German defeats. Army expertise produced earlier victories (a variation of the post World War I stab in the back. legend).
- The stereotypical Soviet soldier was capable of enduring great suffering and hardship, fatalistic, dogged in defense (in particular in bridgeheads), a master of infiltration and night fighting, but inflexible, unimaginative, emotional and prone to panic in the face of uncertainty.

A majority of Americans probably accept these judgments as realities . In doing so they display a warped impression of the war which belittles the role played by the Red Army. As a consequence, they have a lower than justified appreciation for the Red Army as a fighting force, a tendency which extends, as well, to the postwar Soviet Army. Until the American public (and historians) perception of Soviet source material changes, this overall perception of the war in the East and the Soviet (Red) Army is likely to persist.

Close examination of Soviet sources as well as German archival materials cast many of these judgments into the realm of myth. Recent work done on Eastern Front operations has begun to surface the required evidence to challenge those judgments. Continued work on the part of American historians, additional work by Soviet historians, joint work by both parties, and more extensive efforts to make public Soviet archival materials is necessary for that challenging process to bear fruit.

It is clear that no really objective or more complete picture of operations on the Eastern Front is possible without extensive use of Soviet source material. Thus definitive accounts of operations in the East have yet to be written. How definitive they will ultimately be depends in large part on the future candor and scope of Soviet historical efforts.

In the interim it is the task of American historians, drawing upon all sources, Soviet and German alike, to challenge those judgments and misperceptions which are a produce of past historical work. It is clear that the American (Western) perspective regarding war on the Eastern Front needs broadening, in the more superficial public context and in the realm of more serious historical study. Scholarly cooperation among Soviet and American historians, research exchange programs involving both parties, and expanded conferences to share the fruits of historical research would further this end and foster more widespread understanding on both sides.
__________________
Ceterum censeo, Carthago esse delendam.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 07:17 AM
Martin Bull's Avatar
Acting Wg. Cdr.
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 9,137
Salute!: 2
Saluted 11 Times in 6 Posts
Martin Bull is a glorious beacon of lightMartin Bull is a glorious beacon of lightMartin Bull is a glorious beacon of lightMartin Bull is a glorious beacon of lightMartin Bull is a glorious beacon of lightMartin Bull is a glorious beacon of lightMartin Bull is a glorious beacon of light
Lightbulb Re: The Myth of the Eastern Front.

The historiography of WWII is an interesting subject. Not wishing to sound flippant, but the old 'Mad' magazine did a very amusing comic strip many years ago lampooning the changing Hollywood view of Axis nations in line with then-current 'political correctness' ( the WWII movie view of the brutal, thuggish, sadistic Nazis gradually changing to a portrayal of honourable, decent - but misguided - folk...etc)
__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 12:44 PM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 14,446
Salute!: 43
Saluted 14 Times in 13 Posts
Kai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really nice
Wink Re: The Myth of the Eastern Front.

Like Göring said, there will be statues of his head everywhere ( in Germany ), perhaps not big ones, but statues all the same....

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eastern front : won from the start ? chocapic Russia at War 127 October 25th, 2007 05:36 PM
Eastern Front Films... Daniel Jones WWII Films & TV 20 July 16th, 2007 12:38 AM
End of the war on the Eastern Front? Richard What If? 52 March 7th, 2007 08:34 AM
NO Eastern Front FramerT Battle for Europe 1 April 12th, 2004 08:50 PM
Eastern Front Mowmer WWII Books and Publications 2 August 12th, 2003 10:43 PM


Google
 

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2000 - 2007, the World War II Network, all rights reserved.Ad Management by RedTyger

Allies