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Old June 11th, 2008, 05:43 PM
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Default Anything by Max Hastings!

The "Lev Tolstoy of our time"; in my opinion. I just finished "Retribution" and was not dissappointed. Everything on the subject of WWII from Max has been excellent and comes highly recommended. I am so impressed with this writer that I might start with some of his works on other subjects.
Max Hastings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
JeffinMNUSA
PS. And please-nobody tell "my wild Irish Rose" wife that my favorite author is "a bloody *&%^$ Brit!" (just joking! Haha-but she does have a thing about Brits from her grandmother who used to tell tales of Ireland during the Michael Collins era).

Last edited by JeffinMNUSA; June 14th, 2008 at 04:08 AM.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:05 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

You and I share an enthusiasm, Jeff !

Yes, he's a journalist, yes, he can be controversial - but I have a great fondness for some of Hastings' books. His own books of memoirs are very good to read ; he has a nice line in self-deprecating humour. I'd recommend ( among many others ) 'Going To The Wars' about his years as a war correspondent and also, if you can beg, borrow or steal a copy of 'Editor - An Inside Story Of Newspapers' then do so !

People often say 'I read such-and-such a book straight through' and I certainly did that with 'Editor'.....
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

I believe he also wrote Bomber Command, a book I have but have not read yet.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

Martin;
I have seldom found an author THAT I CANNOT PUT DOWN but Max is such an author. And he "calls it as he sees it" damn the politics. Such an approach is bound to ruffle some feathers but it is just possible that some feathers need ruffling. I will certainly take you up on your recommendation. Here is another weird thing about Hastings-I have found myself waiting eagerly by the mailbox for Max Hastings books like some kid waiting on a huge shipment of the finest candies in the world. This is all new for me and BRAVO MAX HASTINGS!
JeffinMNUSA
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Old June 11th, 2008, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

Bit of a major fan myself, I can fully appreciate people's quibbles about aspects of his work but he's just so readable. An excellent introduction to any area of the war that he's written on (Or other wars, his Korea book in particular is also excellent).

The only one that's left me scratching my head so far is 'Armageddon', again it's very good, and full of interesting stuff in his usual anecdotal style, but I couldn't really see what the point of the book was. It just didn't seem very cohesive to me.

And as for writing on Hot days in a parked Bentley with the Air conditioning on... I find the thought of that strangely appropriate for such a figure .

Cheers,
Adam.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 03:44 AM
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Default "Das Reich" by Max Hastings

Off my old forum...
Not quite finished with this one but WHAT A READ!
Das Reich - Max Hastings - Review - New light shed on dark times.
The book centers around the march of the SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" towards the Normandy Beaches and the delaying actions fought by the French Resistance. An interesting part is early on where a hoary old SS Russian Front vet makes a speech to the new recruits-many Alsatians, Romanians, Hungarians and other "junior members" of the "Ubermenschen World Order", and wins them over totally. After Normandy and the uprising of the French Resistance things take on a bloody minded momentum of their own. The book also delves into the SOE activities, Jedburgs, the various communist and non communist French Maquis groups and how all these elements collided against the mighty Das Reich during it's march Northwards. Von Rundstadt had recemmended that that the German forces in France cede the South to the Resistance and concentrate their available forces against the beachheads-but OKW would have none of this. It is rather perplexing that OKW would make such a militarily BAD DECISION. I am guessing that the Partisan Movements in the USSR and Yugoslavia played a part in High Command's decision-they had after all seen resistance movements in their Eastern territories grow from bad jokes into deadly threats, and perhaps hoped to "nip this one in the bud." It was a fatal overextension of the German Forces in the West's capabilities.
JeffinMNUSA
PS. Hastings also "gives the Devil his due" in admitting that the SS massacre did put a quick stop to Partisan activities. France was not the East....The French Resistance accomplished more by sabotaging the Railroads and forcing Das Reich to the roads than it did by any shooting actions in any case...

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Old June 14th, 2008, 04:49 AM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

I'll be getting some Max Hastings tomorrow, thanks for the info.

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Old June 14th, 2008, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

I think 'Das Reich' was a bit of a low point for Hastings; as readable as all his stuff but also the point he was most deeply immersed in the Germanocentric view he's often been accused of, (and I reckon has withdrawn further from ever since that book).
He seems a little stuck to his own theories of the march as provided by the SS veterans he was in contact with and doesn't appear to apply too much objective depth to their subjective viewpoints.

Cheers,
Adam.
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Old June 17th, 2008, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

Von Poop;
I don't think it "Germanocentric" to acknowledge historical facts-and the fact is that the German military machine of WWII was terrifyingly effective. WWII vets may not like to hear it-and Max would get his butt kicked if he were to go into a VFW in my hometown talking this stuff (or at least get rammed by some wheelchairs)- but the fact is that our infantry divisions-with a few exceptions- were NOT the biggest, meanest dogs on the block (if I recall from Max us Yanks had NOTHING on night ops in the book and little in the way of sniping programs). It is a good thing that our guys had air, arty, and material superiority or the Wehrmacht would have ripped them apart. There is an account in Hastings where during the breakout a column of Allied tanks is crossing a clearing in a forest and a Wehrmacht Self propelled gun opened fire? Well it killed five or six of ours and then vanished. Little details like that tell you that the Wehrmacht really knew it's business. And if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then the Two Superpowers adapting the tactics and weapons of the defeated German forces in the aftermath of WWII is some sincere flattery indeed.
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Old June 17th, 2008, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

I refer more to Hastings going a little over the top in his praise of the German military, and by extension too far in his critique of the allies. He's definitely pulled away from that perspective from 'Overlord' onwards, I seem to remember it's a failing from that period he's acknowledged himself somewhat in recent years.
On 'ripping the allies apart in Normandy' I'd respectfully suggest Hastings's 'Overlord' (if you've not been there already) followed by John Buckley's 'British Armour in the Normandy Campaign'. While Hastings's book was seen as pretty radical on it's release the Buckley one deals with many of it's themes in a rather (far) more serious way and comes to very different conclusions.

As I've said I like Hastings, I admire the fact he can write properly and always entertainingly (unlike Buckley... as others here can attest Doctrine doctrine doctrine ), but I'm pretty comfortable that it's fair comment to say he's an excellent 'generalist', sometimes not so good on the specifics, & has in the past been somewhat guilty of over-egging the German story, not unlike the old 'Ostfront' mythology perhaps largely down to over-focusing on German sources.

Cheers,
Adam.
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Old June 17th, 2008, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

Hastings gores way over the top in his assesment of the German performance in Normandy. It can't be denied the Germans were comprehensively defeated and thus the admirers trot out the old chestnut 'yes but didn't they last a long time before they broke'.
By the end of August Germanys finest were hopelessly outfought, outmanouvered and thrashed. They were in full flight and I am at a loss how this defeat is held up as an example of 'superior' tactical ability.
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Originally Posted by JeffinMNUSA View Post
It is a good thing that our guys had air, arty, and material superiority or the Wehrmacht would have ripped them apart.
Quite absurd. They were engaged head on. Dug in and with the advantage of a long range tank kill superiority they were still foced into headlong retreat.
Quote:
There is an account in Hastings where during the breakout a column of Allied tanks is crossing a clearing in a forest and a Wehrmacht Self propelled gun opened fire? Well it killed five or six of ours and then vanished. Little details like that tell you that the Wehrmacht really knew it's business.
This is the old myth of multiple tank kills for individual Panzers. The overall totals for tank losses in Normandy show that the Allied losses were less than 2:1 in the German favour. You often hear about Shermans bursting into flames but never get told that the Pz IV had an even higher burn rate than the Sherman. Whilst 80% of penetrated Shermans caught fire so did 80% of penetrated Tigers. The Panther burn rate was 60%.
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Old June 17th, 2008, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

Quote:
Originally Posted by m kenny View Post
The overall totals for tank losses in Normandy show that the Allied losses were less than 2:1 in the German favour.

Agree with everything else but this. Sure the losses were not in 2:1 but many German lost tanks were lost due to naval or aerial bombardement not in direct confrontation.



Cheers...
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Old June 17th, 2008, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIguel B. View Post
Agree with everything else but this. Sure the losses were not in 2:1 but many German lost tanks were lost due to naval or aerial bombardement not in direct confrontation.
Not to be flippant but this is the standard second line of defence when the original uber-panzer myth is exposed. Most German tank crews fled their tanks and ran away during the retreat phase and this is claimed to be proof that they had better tanks! Deserting your tank (because you know that if you fight you will be destroyed) is elevated into some great feat of arms. Is running away and abandoning your tank an example of greater tactical superiority? Why not turn and fight?
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Old June 18th, 2008, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Anything by Max Hastings!

I'm not judging wich tank was better or not. I'm a numberhollic so for me, putting odds like that without taking the proper measures to acess what caused the losses is like a small crime (I know I'm picky! Must be the Aspies pushing the strings).
I'm just debating that. For the superiority of German tanks over allied ones, I'll leave that to the apropiate place.



Cheers...
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Old June 18th, 2008, 05:25 PM
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Default

Hi all;
Here's an interesting book I will order sometime; Second World War Books: Review
And it might bruise some peoples' nationalistic pride but I remain convinced that the Wehrmacht was the most tactically effective ground combat force of WWII-convince me otherwise (it is most fortunate that Der Fuhrer was a strategic dunce). They were also serving a thoroughly malignant cause and if they had won the world would have been plunged into a new dark age. So why were these guys so effective? Well a large part of the puzzle is probably the Hitler Youth-a compulsory organization that prepared German young people for Hitler's wars. They also served as talent spotters for young people with leadership ability.
JeffinMNUSA

Last edited by JeffinMNUSA; June 19th, 2008 at 05:20 PM.
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