JW:
That was meant as a joke...
Jumbo: The classic Hollywood portrayal of the Brits is either as effete, bungling or rigidgly class-ridden.
Knight: We don't think you're rigidly class-ridden.

It's never funny when you have to explain it, I know...

THAT is why inaccurate movies piss me off so badly!!!! A majority of the butt-heads in the public are going to believe it!!!! One of the people who saw that piece of total crap with me saw nothing wrong with it.

And as for Brits in american WWII movies.
...hell, we don't even include them, much less degrade them! I think the last time I saw any other allied soldier in a US war movie was the longest day. Now, U-571 was something that, if you can base it off of an actual event at all, was something we were not even really involved in! I'd really like to get ahold of the person that wrote that lie!
Even the highly acclaimed SPR and Band of Brothers were really way too "US" in my opinion. Now, the areas of operation may not have included British sectors, I'm not familiar enough with the geography to know. But, still....

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Living History at http://oldreliable9_47.tripod.com

'Where Eagles Dare' fiction !?

Oh, well - another illusion shattered ! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Heterosexual British Actors in Military Roles in American Films:

Michael Caine
Sean Connery
James Mason
Robert Shaw
Alec Guinness
Trevor Howard
Anthony Quayle
Jack Hawkins
Richard Burton
David Niven
Errol Flynn (NZ)
Walter Pidgeon
Basil Rathbone
Ralph Richardson
Christopher Plummer
Michael York
Harry Andrews
Michael Redgrave

I could go on. But, I think you can see that British soldiers portrayed in American films are done so by rather masculine, heterosexual actors.

Robert Shaw was an American

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

thanks friedrich and Jumbo--I watch as many Forign movies as I do H-wood made movies. SO I have seen a good amount of movies with the Brits as heroes, and non-bungeling oafs.

From the dustbins--also known as my memory:

ANZACS--the war down under.
Waltzing Matilda.
The Desert Rats.
Raid on Rommel.
Beneath Us the Waves.
D-Day--the 6th of June.
Dunkirk.
The Four Feathers (the original movie)
Battle of Britain.
The Lighthorsemen.
Breaker Morant.
Road to Cairo.
Sink the Bismarck.
Persuit of the Graf Spee.
Hitler.
Hitler, the last 10 days.
The Bunker.
Something ??? but not serious (I cant remember the exact name.
Too late, the Hero.
Dawn patrol--the first make and next remake.
Desert patrol.
The lost Patrol--both versions.

And im sure there are many others that I have not mentioned--these are just off the top of my head.

Oh I also forgot--Gallipoli.

I know, I know--some are Aussia and Kiwi made, but they are excellent none the less. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Don't forget ZULU and The Longest Day.

Of course, the 4 toughest American movie soldiers could mop up the room with that entire list of Brit movie soldiers!

Robert Mitchum
Lee Marvin
Charles Bronson
Robert Ryan

The best New Zealand made flim

Lord Of the Rings!!!!!

opps not quite WW2 [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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David

When you go home
Tell them of us, and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today.

Knight Templar

How many of that thoughtfully provided list are

A) Still alive
B) Last saw action in a war film produced by Hollywood

Oh, who mentioned Heterosexuality? I only mentioned effete, a very different thing indeed. Nevertheless I note with surprise the presence of Michael Redgrave. He and Dirk Bogarde starred in a film called "The Sea Shall not Have Them". Noel Coward pointed out that this was unfair as everyone else had. Also note Michael York's performance in Cabaret...And since when were Alec Guiness, Ralph Richardson or Trevor Howard Britains answer to Clint Eastwood. Somehow I can't see David Niven saying "Go ahead punk, make my day"

Mr Evans

How many of your list are actually "Hollywood" films? Most of them seem to be British films, in many cases over 20 years old.

The Longest Day and A Bridge Too Far were very good films because they, at least, spread the heroism around - even to the Germans. In the latter case the presence of Richard "don't Dickie me ducky" Attenborough might have helped a bit.

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Charles Bronson is still alive and is in his 70's. He served in the US Navy in ww2 ( Charles Buchinsky ) Lee Marvin was a US Marine in ww2 was on Iwo Jima. Robert Mitchum never served and I dont think Robert Ryan ever did either.

Michael Caine did serve in the British military--in the Korean War. I dont think Connery ever served in the military--but he was once a Gravedigger. James Mason--yet another of my Fav British actors--as well as the above mentioned. Alce Guinness another Fav--specially as Obi Wan Kenobi Trevor Howard--another all-time fav of mine. Anthony Quayle--recently deceased--another fav. Jack Hawkins--another fav of mine. Richard Burton--would be in the top 5 of my fav actors from the UK. David Niven--another all-time fav. Errol Flynn--of course--and he was and will ALWAYS be, the BEST Robin Hood and a good General George Armstrong Custer Basil Rathbone--another fav--especially as he was in Dawn Patrol with Niven and Flynn. I dont like Plummer but he is a good actor. Michael York--another fav. Harry Andrews--will always be a fav of mine as well. But dont forget John Mills--he was most excellent in the 1950s version of Titanic and was very good in the movie: Dunkirk .

[ 16 October 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Jumbo,
I didn't know that you were referring to modern actors.

I'm not going to parse words with you regarding "effete" or what have you. I'll use "hetero" in quotes, if that's better. I believe that you're saying Americans see the British (in film) as delicate and efeminate.
(That must be why they call it The British Disease)
"Effete" literally means "worn out." I don't know if that's what you really mean to convey.

I'm talking about these actors as they appeared as soldiers.
David Niven was very good in Dawn Patrol.
There was nothing "effete" or whatever about Michael Redgrave in Battle of Britain.
Michael York was a soldier in several films. What about Zeppelin? Alec Guiness in Bridge on the River Kwai? These guys were great.
Of course, Clint Eastwood, Bronson, or Mitchum could kick them all out of town. But... they're... Americans... you know?

effete, adj., 1. no longer capable of producing; spent and sterile. 2. lacking vigor, force of character, moral stamina, etc.; decadent, soft, overrefined, etc.

Clarification on what effete actually means, from your local intellectual toxic waste dump.

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Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

We stereotype British men as decadent, soft, and overrefined.
That would be correct.
We don't necessarily stereotype them as homosexual, unmanly, or effeminate.
I will admit, though--that when they're not soldiers, these sterotypes may very well apply (speaking about Hollywood.)

Hello Jumbo--it was my intention to list as many British made movies as I could. I like all of these and have most if not all on tape. Soon as I buy a DVD player--im getting all of these on DVD too. I like movies made in the UK as much as I like good American made flicks.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Knight--i'm curious, what is the reason for showing showing the "In distress" flag?

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Knight

I think Redgrave has about 2 minutes in BoB, handing a staff report to Dowding...

Of course I'm not critical of the actors, they are all very talented. But they are also how Hollywood likes it's Brits, and to a certain extent how Britain has liked to see itself portrayed: unflappable, cool and collected whilst the Yanks chew cigars, shout a lot and fire off ammunition as if it's going out of fashion.

The best examples are the classic war films produced in Britain in the 50's: all stiff upper lips and comic-opera Nazis. Should come with a Health warning "Do not take seriously under any circumstances".

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

'Ach, zo, Herr Vilson'

as Anton Diffring may have said....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Dear Jumbo,

OK. I am sincerely impressed: that you would remember the two minute scene in BoB with Michael Redgrave (you caught me on that one... I was pushing things a bit with MR )
Yes, again: Hollywood's American soldiers are more of the Sgt. Rock variety, while the Brits are more restrained and refined.
I should add, however, that as restrained/refined soldiers go, the British certainly can't be beat.
Gregory Peck fit this mold, but couldn't compete against Christopher Plummer, for example.
Then, there are the tough, yet refined soldiers, such as James Coburn or Steve McQueen: both superb.
Favorite Germans, anyone?
I would bestow high honors on Curt Jurgens, with Max von Sydow second.
Hardy Kruger third and Maximillian Schell fourth.

I preffer the cold and classy Brits and the stupid and classy krauts (I have finally used that bloody words...) than unclassy, gum chewers American supermen... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I thought that U-571 was a good movie, I enjoyed it. It is nice sometimes to just watch a movie and not think about the historical accuracy.

I agree! This is one of my all time favorite movies! I have watched it several times! Sometimes I just want to be entertained! This movie does it for me!!

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Members of the Dutch Resistance with 101st AB, Eindhoven. Operation Market Garden.

Scott

Same here. I really enjoyed it

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"Live as brave men; and if fortune is adverse, front its blows with brave hearts." - Cicero

a lot of mixted thorts on this film but i will haft to say i liked it ..7/10
best krieg

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]for thow . will be ours someday .we shall have it all
. . und mear....


,

I didn't mind it. Any war