WOW!! Really?? As part of the " everyone "who wants to discuss World War II have to pander to Jewsih sentiment" set I didn't know that . What an ridiculous statement. Do you seriously think that "EVERYONE" who discusses WWII "panders to the Jewish sentiment?". You could not be more wrong and obviously you have not read alot of what is posted here.
I guess you must have missed this part of the statement in my post ,

"My only dissapointment with the film is that it was a little too sympathetic with Stauffenberg, neglecting show his initial support of the Nazi policy of conquest aswell as the anti-semitic views that the real Stauffenberg expressed to his wife in a letter from Poland in 1939 in which he derrided the Poles and the Jews as "A people that is only comfortable under the lash. The thousands of prisoners will serve our agriculture well."

Not just the Jews but the Poles as well. There was NO mention of the Holocaust in that statement AT All. Nor was there in my assessment of the film any mention of Jews or the Holocaust. But since I discuss WWII I should be one of the "Everyone" that does. Right? I certainly find it funny when people come and make the blanket statements about people you know nothing about like yours. Nice to see in your first post an obvious chip on your shoulder.

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Yeah, what he said! ^^^^^^

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Scott

It could be your last if you continue to ask questions like this.

We do not "pander to Jewsih [sic] sentiment," but rather, recognize the evil purpertrated against those people and many other ethnic groups, directed by the leaders of the German National Socialist Party before and during the war.

Take this public warning as you desire, and I do not wish to hear of any cries of "freedom of speech." This is a privately owned forum and your freedom extends only as far as the owner allows it.

This is issue is closed, I do not wish to see any other comments about it.

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Best Regards,
JW

No prob Jeff. I made my statement . Thanks

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

This thread is taking an "interesting" turn, I'd be wary, there are PanzerPenguins about.

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Well, I'm going to see it tomorrow night anyway. I have been looking forward to it coming out for quite some time.

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On the Plains of Hesitation
lies the blackend bones of countless millions
who, at the dawn of victory sat down to rest,
and resting died....
(author unknown-I wish it was me)

With Dingane shamful remark to one side, I'm still interested in folks view on this film for the better or worst.

__________________

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Yes, I 'd like to know more about it too. It looks promising. How was the film A-58?

__________________

I have yet to see this movie either, but be that as it may, what should be remembered when it comes to von Stauffenberg and his relatives and contemporaries; is that he and they were largely indifferent to the Jews themselves, or their plight. If the movie reflects the mass killings by referring to only the Jews, then that is only a slight mis-representation and probably inserted for clarity to the "lowest common denominator" of movie goer.

It was the besmirching of Germany’s honor which was of particular importance to many of the conspirators. For example, though many of the conspirators were aware of the terrible crimes carried out on the Eastern Front, and were indeed appalled by them, it was not the crimes themselves that lead them to action, but the damage they perceived those crimes were doing to Germany’s reputation for the future. Both Stauffenberg brothers expressed that even though they were appalled at the violence carried out against minorities (by the Nazi regime), they still viewed Jews as foreigners who had to be either controlled or segregated.

"…his brother Berthold, speaking for himself and Claus after the failed coup, told the police that they had approved of most of the Nazi’s domestic policies." (Hoffmann, Stauffenberg, p. 68)

"Claus von Stauffenberg approved of restrictions on Jews, but condemned persecution. Berthold, despite his article regarding citizenship, felt that those who murdered Jews ought to be prosecuted." (Hoffman, Stauffenberg, pp 81, 92)

"After his arrest, Berthold von Stauffenberg admitted that he and the other resisters had found Hitler’s concept of race, and by extension his anti-Semitism, to be ‘healthy and forward-looking.’ Berthold von Stauffenberg, for instance, had written an article before the beginning of the Holocaust proposing the revocation of citizenship for, among others, Jews and un-redeemable criminals." (Hoffman, Stauffenberg, pp 89-90)

Colonel von Stauffenberg’s was quite disturbed by the war crimes committed against Russians, Poles, and Jews. But again, it seems that he did not allow this to affect his thinking until mid to late 1942 when winning the war was seen to be nigh impossible. Stauffenberg, for instance, resented that Hitler had, in the words of the author Peter Hoffmann, "besmirched the good name of the German people through cruel mass murder." (Hoffmann, Stauffenberg, p.210)

When looked at in this light, it wasn't THAT these crimes were being committed per se, it was how their commission would be viewed by the future if/when Germany lost the war. Just my opinion of Col. Stauffenberg and his historical involvment in the July 20th plot. Could be wrong, often am.

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Happy Trails,
Clint.

I was too busy chewing on the originator of this statement, Dingane, that I missed your comment Decoder, until it was brought to my attention by a old timer.

Be careful where you tread.

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

Oops, I accidently quoted wrong post-mods-puhleeze delete--Danke.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

FOr Skipper, I wanted to go see it when I was in Austin on Fri-Sat-but had no way to get to any theater. Will try here in H-town in a day or two.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I meant to originally quote Ikes post but accidently quoted a controversial one-now deleted. Anyhooyou make great points in here and fully agree w/ ya. Also, I heard Cruise was getting 20 million plus a chunk of any profits made.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

The percentage is typical of his contracts of late but 20 mil........nah. He's not worth it.

__________________

I agree that Tom Cruise is a casting error, the perfect actor for that would have been Rutger Hauer. Much more Aryian looking!

__________________

Two more reviews

Tom Cruise Fails to Convince in Sluggish 'Valkyrie'


Cruise's 'Valkyrie' Low on Thrills


By CLAUDIA PUIG, USA TODAY
Dec. 27, 2008

"Valkyrie" is a World War II thriller without enough thrills


The story, based on a real-life attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler, starts slowly and then takes off about halfway in. But even during scenes of intense action, the visually slick production is only minimally engrossing.
One of the most misguided aspects is casting Tom Cruise in the lead role. While the supporting cast includes some of the best European — mainly British — actors in strong performances, Cruise is unconvincing and stiff as the disenchanted Col. Claus von Stauffenberg. With his modern Yank-speak, Cruise sounds disturbingly American, detracting substantially from a believable portrayal of a German officer

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...6527990&page=1

and,

Valkyrie' non-flop augurs well for Cruise, UA

• By JAKE COYLE, AP Entertainment Writer Jake Coyle, Ap Entertainment Writer – 2 hrs 52 mins ago
  

Reuters – An undated handout photo shows U.S. actor Tom Cruise dressed in his role as Nazi German Colonel Claus …

• NEW YORK – After the reasonably strong box office performance of "Valkyrie" over the weekend, skeptics were robbed of the chance to declare "Flop!"

The Tom Cruise WWII thriller earned $21.5 million over the weekend, with a four-day haul of $30 million since it opened on Christmas Day.
That was a solid and better than expected box-office draw for "Valkyrie," which cost a reported $90 million to produce (director Bryan Singer has pegged it at closer to $75 million) and perhaps more than half that to market it.
"This totally robs the nay-sayers of their ability to deem it a flop, because it's not," said Paul Dergarabedian, president of box-office tracker Media By Numbers. "It does show the renewed star power of Tom Cruise."
Dergarabedian credited Cruise's comic (and Golden Globe nominated) performance in the summer's "Tropic Thunder" in helping audiences again embrace the actor.
He also noted that a film about Nazis wouldn't have earned nearly as much without Cruise's star power and a savvy marketing campaign. That campaign — which positioned "Valkyrie" as a historical thriller and led to an audience that MGM said skewed 55 percent male — helped turn back earlier bad publicity.
When photos were first released showing Cruise as would-be Adolf Hitler assassin Col. Claus von Stauffenberg, the pictures of the actor in a German WWII uniform and eye patch were widely mocked online. A brief disagreement with the German Defense Ministry due to Cruise's Scientology beliefs also didn't help.
And United Artists, a division of MGM, repeatedly shifted the release date before settling on a Christmas Day release but without an Oscar campaign. For his part, Cruise, who co-owns UA, kept his sense of humor about it.
"Go kill Hitler on Christmas!" joked Cruise in a recent interview with The Associated Press.
But the move paid off partially because of high across-the-board returns on the holiday.
According to Sunday estimates, "Marley & Me" debuted at No. 1 with $37 million in weekend ticket sales and a total of $51.7 million since opening Christmas Day. The four-day take of Adam Sandler's "Bedtime Stories" totaled $38.6 million and "Benjamin Button" grossed $39 in the same period.
The stakes may have been highest, though, for "Valkyrie." It was only the second film released by UA since it was reformed by Cruise and producer Paula Wagner. Last year's "Lions for Lambs," in which Cruise starred with Meryl Streep, earned just $15 million.
Cruise and Wagner (who has since left her chief executive post at UA) initially planned to release four films a year, so there is all the more pressure on "Valkyrie" — UA's one 2008 film — to perform well.
Dergarabedian believes "Valkyrie" stands a good chance of becoming profitable in the end, partially because Cruise is still a big draw internationally. Even "Lions for Lambs" managed nearly $50 million at the foreign box office.

`Valkyrie' non-flop augurs well for Cruise, UA - Yahoo! News

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Two more reviews

Tom Cruise Fails to Convince in Sluggish 'Valkyrie'


Cruise's 'Valkyrie' Low on Thrills


By CLAUDIA PUIG, USA TODAY
Dec. 27, 2008

"Valkyrie" is a World War II thriller without enough thrills


The story, based on a real-life attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler, starts slowly and then takes off about halfway in. But even during scenes of intense action, the visually slick production is only minimally engrossing.
One of the most misguided aspects is casting Tom Cruise in the lead role. While the supporting cast includes some of the best European — mainly British — actors in strong performances, Cruise is unconvincing and stiff as the disenchanted Col. Claus von Stauffenberg. With his modern Yank-speak, Cruise sounds disturbingly American, detracting substantially from a believable portrayal of a German officer

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...6527990&page=1

and,

Valkyrie' non-flop augurs well for Cruise, UA

• By JAKE COYLE, AP Entertainment Writer Jake Coyle, Ap Entertainment Writer – 2 hrs 52 mins ago
  

Reuters – An undated handout photo shows U.S. actor Tom Cruise dressed in his role as Nazi German Colonel Claus …

• NEW YORK – After the reasonably strong box office performance of "Valkyrie" over the weekend, skeptics were robbed of the chance to declare "Flop!"

The Tom Cruise WWII thriller earned $21.5 million over the weekend, with a four-day haul of $30 million since it opened on Christmas Day.
That was a solid and better than expected box-office draw for "Valkyrie," which cost a reported $90 million to produce (director Bryan Singer has pegged it at closer to $75 million) and perhaps more than half that to market it.
"This totally robs the nay-sayers of their ability to deem it a flop, because it's not," said Paul Dergarabedian, president of box-office tracker Media By Numbers. "It does show the renewed star power of Tom Cruise."
Dergarabedian credited Cruise's comic (and Golden Globe nominated) performance in the summer's "Tropic Thunder" in helping audiences again embrace the actor.
He also noted that a film about Nazis wouldn't have earned nearly as much without Cruise's star power and a savvy marketing campaign. That campaign — which positioned "Valkyrie" as a historical thriller and led to an audience that MGM said skewed 55 percent male — helped turn back earlier bad publicity.
When photos were first released showing Cruise as would-be Adolf Hitler assassin Col. Claus von Stauffenberg, the pictures of the actor in a German WWII uniform and eye patch were widely mocked online. A brief disagreement with the German Defense Ministry due to Cruise's Scientology beliefs also didn't help.
And United Artists, a division of MGM, repeatedly shifted the release date before settling on a Christmas Day release but without an Oscar campaign. For his part, Cruise, who co-owns UA, kept his sense of humor about it.
"Go kill Hitler on Christmas!" joked Cruise in a recent interview with The Associated Press.
But the move paid off partially because of high across-the-board returns on the holiday.
According to Sunday estimates, "Marley & Me" debuted at No. 1 with $37 million in weekend ticket sales and a total of $51.7 million since opening Christmas Day. The four-day take of Adam Sandler's "Bedtime Stories" totaled $38.6 million and "Benjamin Button" grossed $39 in the same period.
The stakes may have been highest, though, for "Valkyrie." It was only the second film released by UA since it was reformed by Cruise and producer Paula Wagner. Last year's "Lions for Lambs," in which Cruise starred with Meryl Streep, earned just $15 million.
Cruise and Wagner (who has since left her chief executive post at UA) initially planned to release four films a year, so there is all the more pressure on "Valkyrie" — UA's one 2008 film — to perform well.
Dergarabedian believes "Valkyrie" stands a good chance of becoming profitable in the end, partially because Cruise is still a big draw internationally. Even "Lions for Lambs" managed nearly $50 million at the foreign box office.

`Valkyrie' non-flop augurs well for Cruise, UA - Yahoo! News

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

And yet a movie about a dog does better at the box office .

'Marley & Me' earns $50.7M box office biscuit

LOS ANGELES – "Marley & Me" was the gift that kept on taking: The romantic comedy starring Jennifer Aniston and Owen Wilson followed up its record $14.75 million Christmas Day opening with another $50.7 million at the weekend box office.
Meanwhile, "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" gave up its No. 2 Christmas Day slot to "Bedtime Stories" in the Friday-to-Sunday haul.
The top 20 movies at U.S. and Canadian theaters Friday through Sunday, followed by distribution studio, gross, number of theater locations, average receipts per location, total gross and number of weeks in release, as compiled Monday by Media By Numbers LLC:
1. "Marley & Me," Fox, $50,748,566, 3,480 locations, $10,450 average, $18,262,471, one week.
2. "Bedtime Stories," Disney, $38,029,113, 3,681 locations, $7,457 average, $38,029,113, one week.
3. "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button," Paramount, $38,725,647, 2,988 locations, $8,987 average, $38,725,647, one week.
4. "Valkyrie," MGM, $29,520,979, 2,711 locations, $7,756 average, one weeks.
5. "Yes Man," Warner Bros., $22,587,046, 3,434 locations, $4,851 average, two weeks.
6. "Seven Pounds," Sony, $17,950,683, 2,758 locations, $4,787 average, two weeks.
7. "The Tale of Despereaux," Universal, $10,903,665, 3,107 locations, $2,875 average, two weeks.
8. "The Day the Earth Stood Still," Fox, $10,466,553, 2,402 locations, $3,205 average, three weeks.
9. "The Spirit," Lionsgate, $10,305,501, 2,509 locations, $2,576 average, 1 week.
10. "Doubt," Miramax, $6,760,322, 1,267 locations, $4,214 average, 3 weeks.
11. "Four Christmases," Warner Bros., $7,076,330, 2,510 locations, $1,928 average, 5 weeks.
12. "Twilight," Summit Entertainment, $5,733,918, 1,849 locations, $2,565 average, $2,991, six weeks.
13. "Slumdog Millionaire," Fox Searchlight, $5,647,007, 614 locations, $7,006 average, seven weeks.
14. "Bolt," Disney, $4,054,370, 1,923 locations, $1,757 average, six weeks.

15. "Gran Torino," Warner Bros., $3,086,339, 84 locations, $27,652 average, three weeks.
16. "Milk," Focus, $2,262,638, 311 locations, $5,668 average, five weeks.
17. "Quantum of Solace," Sony, $1,763,632, 891 locations, $1,572 average, seven weeks.
18. "Frost/Nixon," Universal, $1,826,281, 205 locations, $6,611 average, four weeks.
19. "Australia," Fox, $1,304,879, 711 locations, $1,518 average, $2,212, five weeks. 20. "Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa," Paramount, $1,073,936, 808 locations, $1,142 average, eight weeks.


'Marley & Me' earns $50.7M box office biscuit - Yahoo! News

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Now thats using the old noodle.

Hollywood could learn a lot from you Za.

__________________

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Thinking again, why not Mel Gibson?

__________________

Yet Cruise looks quite like the real Stauffenberg and Hauer is 64 years old by now and never looked like Stauffenberg.

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

Yet looking similar to von Stauffenberg didn't help his acting it looks like . Sorry. He could be von Stauffenberg's identical twin and he still couldn't act the part.

"Cruise is unconvincing and stiff as the disenchanted Col. Claus von Stauffenberg. With his modern Yank-speak, Cruise sounds disturbingly American, detracting substantially from a believable portrayal of a German officer"

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Very well, but casting Hauer because he's "much more Aryan looking" won't help much for that matter.

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

Ok, I give up on Hauer.

Maximilian Schell, perhaps?



Hmmm, he's 78 by now...

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I fully agree with you there as well-he aint worth it-neither are any of the other big-wigs attempting to act these days with the exception of a few like Clint Eastwood, Mel Gibson and Tom Hanks.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.