Too bad Montgomery Clift isn't still around-and looking also like he did when he was in From Here To Eternity-he'd been better than Tommy boy. Also, for that matter, so would Derick Jacoby

Got another for you to ponder in that role--heh heh Dean Martin-back as he looked in the late 1940's. ;-))

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

You got this one for sure Miguel. Maximilian Schell would have been an excellent choice-providing he still looked as he did when he was in "Judgement At Nuremburg". And for that matter-Peter Duryea would also have been a nice choice-had he still looked as he did back in the 1960's and had he also not quit the acting business that his Papa had been in for about 30 years and also being killed off in 90% of the movies he ever made.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Cross of Iron - "How do I reload?"

__________________

My Silent Hunter 3 U-Boats Skins to Download.
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gaming/32642-my-u-boat-skins-d-l.html
Small selction of My SH3/4 Mods
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gami...-sh4-mods.html

On a lighter note.....



Phone call.....

I'm sorry to tell my general the Allies blew up your truck of luxury toilet paper..... but on the up side your porto-loo is intact.

__________________

My Silent Hunter 3 U-Boats Skins to Download.
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gaming/32642-my-u-boat-skins-d-l.html
Small selction of My SH3/4 Mods
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gami...-sh4-mods.html

Yeah too bad they couldn't find a suitable German actor or one that could in anyway concievable portray a German. Hell a German accent would have helped Cruise. At least the other actors like some have said didn't sound like a "Yank".

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Hi;
Truth is I have been waiting to hear what YOU GUYS have to say about this one before deciding whether to wait for the DVD or not (SCREW those critics with a capitol S!). Still about 50/50-will see if the wife seems interested later.
"The Jews!?" Well it is true that there is an over focus on the Jewish experience in that horrific event. As if the subject were South America but most of the movies out were about Brazil. But still, Brazil is one fascinating place!
The critic (BOO HISS!) who was talking about Von Stauffenberg's lack of moral commitment and letters to his wife cheering on the Wehrmacht has no understanding of the historical reality. THose of high moral commitment in the THird Reich dissappeared into the camps in the 30s. LEtters home were carefully watched by the Gestapo. The slightest show of public anti regime sentiment could be a death sentence. You cannot apply American sensibilities to this subject. This guy should read Vasily Grossman's "Life and Fate" to understand what life under totalitarianism was/is like. But I doubt he would make through the first 5 pages.
PSS. Life in Waziristan is starting to sound eerily like something we have all been reading up on.

__________________

Ah, yes, it was a good idea to always put in a few lines of pro-regime bullshit because you never knew who was going to read them. This worked (works) for a number of regimes.

__________________

I tried to get into this film last Friday - sold out. Made it yesterday afternoon -still a strong crowd. I do agree Cruise is somewhat overshadowed by the excellent supporting cast. Based on my limited knowledge of the event it does seem to stick closely to history which is unusual for anything out of Hollywood these days. The scenes of the JU-52's under close escort from 109's does add a certain panorama and is well done. My son, an active duty soldier with 4 tours to Iraq, said the explosions and pistol shot sounds were accurate as opposed to the usual bang bang.
I think the viewer will come away with the knowledge there were opponents to Hitler inside the German Armed Forces (I think we can all agree this is factual) - how many and when is a question that results in endless debate. I think the makers of the film were honest in showing many involved as concerned with getting rid of Hitler in order to negotiate with the Allies before they arrived in Berlin.
Everything is relative, but IMHO this is a film worth seeing. It is not often film makers will spend this kind of money trying to show real history to the American public.

No UK date yet!

Maybe because its the silly season at the moment.

__________________

My Silent Hunter 3 U-Boats Skins to Download.
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gaming/32642-my-u-boat-skins-d-l.html
Small selction of My SH3/4 Mods
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gami...-sh4-mods.html

LOL Guess what? It wasn't a "critic" who made the statements. But someone like us. A person who like us likes to discuss WWII. Not a professional critic. In fact another member of a different WWII discussion forum made the comments.

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Forget Cruise, forget Hauer, forget Schell! The perfect actor just had to be Karl-Otto Alberty!. Thanks Otto

He happens to be a member of this forum, see the member's list

__________________

Oh what a Jokester you are today Miguel. But a good 'un.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

LOL JC!
Well I stand corrected! One of us! Ah well does show that certain naivete which permeates Western culture, and seems to most heavily effect us AMERICANS.
Examples;Like the Holocaust survivor's American born children asking their parents about why they didn't DO something during Hitler's rise to power? Or a certain President invading a certain ethnically divided, Totalitarian run, Middle Eastern country as if it were a corporate takeover with the citizens "the workers"; who were supposed to welcome the takeover with open arms? Or these Ramsey Clark types who think that the grievances the totalitarian states have against the West really are somehow "ALL OUR FAULT!" Or the guy faulting Von Stauffenburg for not coming out against Hitler much sooner.
A recommended reading for the above mentioned types;
The finest novel of the 20th century is coming to be recognized as Vasily Grossman's "Life and Fate"-smuggled out of the USSR in the 1960s. It is an epic depiction of a Jewish family's life in Stalinist Russia, and under the iron fist of the Hitler regime. It really puts you in the shoes of people living under social systems of total state intimidation-a condition under which the author spent his entire short life. The real deal and not for the weak.
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...esult#PPA28,M1
Hard assed old me? Well I had to skip over the train ride sections-they were too heart breaking. It is a fact that Vasily "Vasya" Grossman's mother was murdered by NAZI.
JeffinMNUSA
PS. Yes on "Valkyrie."
PSS. Grossman's "A Writer at War" is also a great "in their shoes" account of life on the Front Line with the Red Army. And...well it seems Vasily would have been SHOT if the NKVD (secret police) would have discovered these secret notebooks. "Secret notebooks" should raise some suspicions but no-these seem to be genuine.

__________________

Valkyrie

A film review by Sean O'Connell - Copyright © 2008 Filmcritic.com
Because nothing says "Happy birthday, baby Jesus" like Nazis plotting to assassinate Adolf Hitler, United Artists has gift-wrapped Valkyrie and placed it beneath your cinematic Christmas tree.

It wasn't always on the studio's holiday wish list, though. Valkyrie has had more potential dates than a sorority girl during post-production, and UA nabbed headlines as it searched -- endlessly -- for the ideal opening weekend. Such drastic schedule shifts usually suggest a film with serious issues, but fortunately that's not the case with Valkyrie. Director Bryan Singer has made a riveting military drama, a popcorn thriller masquerading as a political potboiler. But he also saddled his studio with a tough film to market.

Start with the face of Singer's picture, which is partially obstructed. Tom Cruise plays a high-ranking officer in Hitler's regime and the driving force behind a factual plot to kill the Führer, sporting an eye patch thanks to injuries his character sustains in an early battle. Then there's the fact that, as any junior high student will be able to tell you, the intricate plot at the center of Valkyrie is destined to fail. Singer can't squeeze tension from a "Will they succeed?" scenario. So he wisely opts for a "How do things go so terribly wrong?" one instead.

Cruise gives perhaps his lowest-key performance ever as Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg, a proud German military officer whose patriotism puts him at odds with Hitler's inhumane practices. After being physically (and emotionally) wounded on an African battlefield, Stauffenberg receives a promotion to Hitler's inner circle -- and is immediately approached by a band of dissenters planning a coup to dethrone the leader of the Nazi party.

Their mission is Operation Valkyrie, an order that would mobilize Hitler's reserve forces if Allied troops infiltrate Germany. General Friedrich Olbricht (Bill Nighy) and Major-General Henning von Tresckow (Kenneth Branagh) view Valkyrie as a means for Germany to both protect Europe and save face with the Allies. But a fed-up Stauffenberg tacks on an amendment to the order. Before Valkyrie can begin, Hitler's life must be ended.

Valkyrie does start slow. Singer takes his time to properly lay a foundation, introduce key characters, and establish potential roadblocks. Tom Wilkinson is particularly convincing as a paranoid Nazi superior who could assist Stauffenberg but would never speak out against the Führer.

The film takes flight, however, once Stauffenberg greenlights the plan -- even though all of the elements for success might not be in place. Singer mounts an impressive campaign, recreating Hitler’s Berlin (and outlying areas) as he tears it down from within. He lifts a few of Alfred Hitchcock's favorite tricks to drum up tensions, and screenwriters Christopher McQuarrie and Nathan Alexander connect Valkyrie to our current conflict in the Middle East as they establish the frustrations felt by German loyalists carrying out the orders of a delusional leader.

That might be reading too deep into the material. But it proves there are layers to Valkyrie beyond the surface thrills.



Katie should have said no to the Red Ryder BB gun.


Rating

3.5 out of 5 Stars

• Director: Bryan Singer
• Producer: Tom Cruise, Chris Lee, Ken Kamins, John Ottman
• Screenwriter: Nathan Alexander, Christopher McQuarrie
• Stars: Tom Cruise, Kenneth Branagh, Bill Nighy, Tom Wilkinson, Carice van Houten, Eddie Izzard
• MPAA Rating: PG-13

• 
  Valkyrie Movie Review, DVD Release - Filmcritic.com

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

OK then JC;
The wife is set to go-said something about how great Tom Cruise was in that Vampire movie, and even Masters level women love Tom Cruise!.
I am looking for a two hour film venture into something that resembles the truth...
Happy 2009!
JeffinMNUSA
PS. Why am I feeling something like "hope"? It must be the wine.
PSS. No I am not Jewish.

__________________

Sebastian Koch played Stauffenberg in the 2004 German television movie...

__________________
Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

I really enjoyed the movie, and I didn't really see any signs of "Nazi apologia" that the critic aforementioned in this thread saw. I do think the beginning was a little slow and I had a slight feeling that the middle and end were a little rushed but, like I said, it was only a slight feeling.

I didn't think Tom Cruise did too bad, perhaps a 7/10. It could have been worse, but I agree that it was his typical acting. The story was awesomely portrayed, in my opinion. I didn't really catch any obvious things that were historically inaccurate, although the taking of Berlin could have possibly been over exaggerated but even this I am not sure. My favorite actor (and the historical figure he portrayed in the movie) was definitely Thomas Kretschmann as Major Remer.

Overall I would rate it a 9/10.

Looks like us in the UK have now got a release date of Jan30th.

__________________

My Silent Hunter 3 U-Boats Skins to Download.
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gaming/32642-my-u-boat-skins-d-l.html
Small selction of My SH3/4 Mods
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gami...-sh4-mods.html

yeh it looks good

__________________

Welcome To the Beast!

I just returned from the movie: I enjoyed the movie (4/5 stars), but there should have been a lot more development for Stauffenberg's character. His roots, his early life, etc. This I think is a missing element to the movie.

He faced a real moral dilemma: "my country right or wrong" (turn a blind eye (no pun intended)) or "I answer to a higher authority". Throw in your fortune, beautiful family, and your own life, such a decision can not be made instantly or easily. (Minus One star)

Fortunately, the Colonel was a strong Christian first (no indication of it but a few scenes that might indicate his relious beliefs)and a German officer next. And he exhibited personally courage in critical situations that would make most men retch, sweat profusely, or lose control of their own bowels.

I don't think the movie provided any Nazi apologia at all. (I think the reviewer thought the German military all ran around with Nazi arm bands.)

As for the casting, well, Cruise isn't a bad choice. Take a look at their profiles: Stauffenberg and Cruise:

__________________
__________________________________________

“The first lesson is that you can't lose a war if you have command of the air, and you can't win a war if you haven't.” - General Jimmy Doolittle

Hi all,
Just back from the "Valkyrie" movie and it was an awesome cinematic experience I can recommend to all mature audiences. The wife loved it and I guess I did too. If I have one criticism it is that I do not recall that the plot went as far as portrayed in the movie-like "Hitler made a phone call and that was that"... In my state of suspended belief I kept hoping that the plotters would succeed... well they might have! For certain a lot more people would be alive today. My best friend and his Jewish wife went to Greece this past summer and there is a Holocaust memorial in Rhodes to the Jewish community there which was wiped out. Would "Sharon" have had some relatives to visit in Rhodes if Von Stauffenburg would have succeeded?
This is one of the best flicks I have ever seen.
JeffinMNUSA

__________________

You clearly have missed the point, the simple fact is that this movie apparently makes out that Stauffenberg was a hero for making a stand against Hitler, totally ignoring the fact that he had supported the war effort for years, had been enthusiastic about the use of Poles etc as slave labour and only actually did anything when things started to go wrong. Sure he had moral qualms about things but not enough to stop him fighting to prolong the Nazi war effort and bring about the early victories. He is no more a hero than Albert Speer or Rudolph Hess, to use your analogy, I find it difficult to see him as a hero, more like a rat leaving a sinking ship.

__________________
There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Stefan;
"Hero" is in the eye of the beholder. The plotters did undertake a harrowing mission to eliminate an exceedingly difficult and dangerous target. To hunt down and destroy a fascist beast and to then to dismantle his works, and this is first and foremost a hunting story. That they came as close as they did is amazing. They seem to have known what the price of failure would be. Suppose they would have suceeded with the first part of the plan? Well Stauffenburg hoped to use the reserve army against the fanatic Hitlerites in the SS and this would seem to be an iffy proposition. With Hitler alive all bets were off and the reserve army fell into line with the regime. Stauffenburg was hoping that the reserve would rally to his cause even if the beast survived. It did not happen.
I suppose you can fault the Colonel for his motivations but the man was after all, an aristocrat and a Prussian militarist. It's his deeds you have to admire.
JeffinMNUSA
PS. And the plot might have made things even worse if NAZI would have remained in control-worst case scenario would be if someone of some military competence-which Hitler had little- would have seized power. Which is why the plotters were at first insisting that the bomb must take out both Hitler and Goebbels
PSS. And there were MANY plots against Hitler but that human cockroach survived them all.
PSSS. And if this fiick has stirred up some controversy I expect "Defiance" to kick up a lot more. I do think it a mistake to judge these people outside the contexts of the terrible times in which they lived.

__________________

Harsh words there Stafan but no complaint from me.

I agree, he was a rat trying to flee a sinking ship by trying to show the world he stood up to Hitler which was rather late in the day. And any how, by this stage of the war Hitler was the Allies invisible Allie by making dreadful decisions.

__________________

My Silent Hunter 3 U-Boats Skins to Download.
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gaming/32642-my-u-boat-skins-d-l.html
Small selction of My SH3/4 Mods
http://www.ww2f.com/simulations-gami...-sh4-mods.html

Sorry but to me after supporting the regime for so long this is too little too late.

Still doesn't escape the fact that the conspirators were all happy to support an evil regime until it started to look like they might lose.

I don't have to admire them, frankly I have more respect for the non-Nazies who continued to fight for the survival of their nation than those who decided things were going wrong and it was time to get off the train they had helped to de-rail.

Moreover, I would say the motives are essential to any ethical or moral evaluation of the acts, frankly supporting the Nazi war effort for so long and then when things started to look bad betraying it pretty much negates the status of 'hero.'

I take it you also think Albert Speer was a hero for not destroying Berlin and helping people to escape the advancing Russians?

To my mind by 1944, after fighting for Hitler for so long it was too little too late.

__________________
There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.