Depends who they are, what they were doing in the mean time and why they did it. Literally a hero is a demigod, an incredible being who is somehow above and beyond the rest of mankind. In more modern times it has come to mean someone who from a position of weakness overcame great power, who displayed 'moral excellence' in great adversity. I do not feel that Stauffenberg fills this definition, he was a man who despite missgivings went along with Hitler for years, he fought for the Nazis as long as they were winning. When things started to look bad and he realised they were likely to loose he changed his mind, this to me is not heroic.

So sure, you can't pin it on a date, but to support the Nazi war effort for that long and change sides when it looks like they might lose, sorry, brave though that is it doesn't make you heroic. He stood by and watched whilst too much evil was done to be a hero.

N. B. Please don't think I am getting on any kind of moral high horse, hell, as a German soldier in that era most likely I would have done what I was told and got on with it. I am not claiming to be in any way morally superior to the plotters.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Talked to an older man this morning who saw the film last night. He too, does not like Tom (couch jumping short stuff) Cruise, but he said that the film was fantastic. I asked him how, he said, "as pure entertainment, it was great!"
So maybe I need to give it a chance. I'll go see it and let you know what I think.

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Scott

Hi Scott, I haven't seen it yet but, what that gent told you, is how we should view all of these hollywoodland type movies-with a grain of salt and as pure entertainment. The same should have been said (which iv'e said here for many years) about U 571 & Harts War. ;-)) I can't stand tom Cruise either-and fully agree you and will give it a watching anyway.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Also remember that being considered a 'hero' is very subjective.

I liked this movie, although as noted in previous posts, the content is questionable in some areas.

Yours,

Bill

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I've seen it twice, it is a very good film. The only criticism I have is that it seemed too "documentary-esque" at times but other than that I thought the acting/directing and script was fantastic.

Found this pic of von Stauffenberg on another site. I thought these comments funny ." For some reason, it's hard to imagine Tom Cruise in this pose."." Pat,
just put him on a Shetland pony." LOL

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

I saw the trailer at the cinema and I noticed big bad Tom was doing his Mr Hand speech from M.I. films. Please I hope he's not going to be like that all the time in this film.

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Krieg is off to see this film later this coming week cannot wait Krieg

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... und mear.......

I saw it yesterday, well, I'm one of those who would normally avoid anything with Cruise in it by as many miles as possible, he's actually not too bad in this and the movie in general isn't the turkey I expected. However, it could have been done a lot better, there could have been a lot more tension at certain parts, the director falls down there IMO and it's overly simplistic in screenwriting story. Some of the casting is just plain odd, if you think Cruise is miscast, Bernard Hill just looks completely out of place to me, granted in a brief appearance, and Eddy Izzard?? WTF? I almost laughed out loud when I saw him, yes that's transvestite comic Eddy Izzard for those not familiar.
Anyway, it's a decent watch but I couldn't recommend it, overall not very memorable.

Some thumbs up and some wavering, hmmm interesting. Keep them coming as we in the UK still got a couple of weeks to wait.

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It came to me after why I didn't find it particularly memorable but I forgot to mention it, it's also lacking depth IMO. It works as a straight plot movie but there's no soul searching as there would be in such an event, we dont know what von Stauffenberg is really thinking aside from a couple of lines early on. In fact we learn absolutely nothing about von Stauffenberg the man, he's pretty one dimensional and it's not Cruise's fault acting wise, we just get the plot which we already know and the outcome... tell me something I dont know to get my attention, so it's a bit of a wasted opportunity I think.
And if it's not known what made von Stauffenberg tick it's where good screenplay comes in to weave more depth into the thing. You could argue it's aimed at the mainstream audience who dont know anything about von Stauffenberg or the plot anyway, for me it could have been a lot better.

Biscuits;
What made Von Stauffenberg tick? Did you catch the real hate during the Fuhrer scenes? This is one GREAT flick. Why is this such a huge and moving historical experience? Well, because people like US stay on the filmmakers' cases. Operating on the basic assumption that the TRUTH is much better than anything any writer could ever make up... Keep up the good work, my friends!
JeffinMNUSA
PS. Kenneth Brannagh as Von Trescow was absolutely brilliant; http://www.aceshowbiz.com/still/0000...alkyrie14.html

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I went to see it last week. It wasn't bad at all. Tom Cruise did a good job, and I know that a lot of people wanted to see him fall on his face with this one. The movie showed how difficult it was to "remove" Hitler without it being a one-way suicide mission and to insure that the Nazi's were to be arrested and neutralized during the installment of the new government. It did fall short at the end concerning the round-up of the conspirators though, specifically how Hitler had them filmed during their executions for his viewing pleasure while he dined.

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On the Plains of Hesitation
lies the blackend bones of countless millions
who, at the dawn of victory sat down to rest,
and resting died....
(author unknown-I wish it was me)

The end was bizarre...the executions seemed way too disorganized.

Thats it, youve ruined it, I'm not going now...Wofly's just told us the end of the movie...What happened to being quiet when you exited the theatre...Great I'll put me popcorn back.

Give them to me, I'm off to see it tomorrow.

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I think that they were running out of film, and had to do a montage of the executions. Keep your popcorn urqh. Sit through it again in case you missed something!

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On the Plains of Hesitation
lies the blackend bones of countless millions
who, at the dawn of victory sat down to rest,
and resting died....
(author unknown-I wish it was me)

Valkyrie Review....

At last I have seen it, and seemed close to events that took place. I will have to re-read one of my books tomorrow while its fresh in my mind.

As to what Wolfy said...(The end was bizarre...the executions seemed way too disorganized.) he has a point there, seems to jump about with later events like Roland Freisler dishing out his sentences and then officers killing themselves or being arrested while this is intertwine with the shooting of Stauffenberg and Co.

As for Tom Cruise he came off poor and I feel someone else could had done a much better job. The pace of the film is alright and keeps your attention. The story starts in North Africa which then leads us to the failed Airplane bomb to kill Hitler in 1943. Then moves on with the recruitment of Stauffenberg in to this resistant group and the rest is history.

David Bamber who played Hitler struck me as rather low keyed...not very forthright at all. Interesting cast of British actors in there, anyone notice three of the actors who were in the BBC drama Conspiracy?

I do have one point with the film but may be correct, Stauffenberg adds amendment to the Valkyrie order which would look like the SS were the ones who plotted to kill Hitler. Seems rather odd as the SS were much more loyal to Hitler than the Army.

Over view of this film

In my opinion is this film was a typical Hollywood film turning Stauffenberg in to a hero and over looking the fact he was not keen on the Jews. More like a TV movie. Clearly this film could have been so much better but this was not the case. Alright for joe public who do not read books about WW2 but for the rest of us a let down. Sorry to say, I don't really recommend it. Better off seeing Defiance which is a much better film.

I would give this film 4 out of 10.


Now some lighter remarks....

Eddie Izzard portrayal of General Erich Fellgiebel, responsible for communications at Hitler's bunker went right over my head! I did not spot him, had to look him up in the role he played.

I had a bit of a laugh at Kenneth Cranham as Wilhelm Keitel when he made the remark hoping some officer would shoot Mussolini.

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I was thinking about 3.2 out of 10.

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I give it a 4.

Not impressed at all. That could have been a good flick. I think I would have rather seen a chick flick................and I hate chick flicks!

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Scott

My score for this would be maybe 6/10. I would give Der untergang (Downfall) an 8/10.

Seems like half a movie- though competently executed. There should have been an hour about S's experiences before the attempted coup. The movie seemed to" jump into" the coup, without sufficient analysis.

I didn't realise it had such adult content.

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I'm looking forward to seeing it. Tom Cruise (not a big fan) does bare a slight resemblance to Stauffenburg..hope he doesn't ruin it.

GS;
I think you might revise your opinion of TC after this one. There is a whole lot of other great acting in this one and Kenneth Brannagh gets a JeffinMNUSA oscar for his portrayal of Von Trescow. The movie sticks pretty closely to the facts but...well face it folks, the filmmakers job is to produce a two hour product that will make $$$, and some degree of Hollywoodization is inevitable (hey, artistic fictionalization of real events has been going on since Homer).
With the "Defiance movie" there are now TWO EXCELLENT WWII FILMS IN THE THEATERS! We students of the era should be dancing in the streets.
JeffinMNUSA
PS. But stay on the filmmakers' cases guys-keeps 'em somewhat honest.

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Anybody notice that the Valkyrie conspirators all had American/British accents and most of the other Germans (against valkyrie) had German accents? Interesting distinction (and worked, imho).

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