WW2 Movie Inaccuracies - Page 3

SMLE shooter · #51 (**permalink**) April 7th, 2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc780

this is a good post, ok heres one. Maybe someone cann dispell it for me.

From Saving Private Ryan. Te scene towards the end where Tom hanks and his men have found Ryan. Ryan refuses to leave his buddies and as the town is about to be assaulted by the Germans Capt Miller (Hanks) organizes the company sized outfit to defend the town.
Remember the American sniper in Millers unit is ordered into the town Bell tower to scout for the oncoming Germans. He hauls up his sniper rifle up to the top of the bell tower along with the squads m1919 machine gun and 1000 belted rounds. He signals to miller he sees 2 tiger tanks, 2 other tanks, and 50 troops on the way into the town. The American unit takes positions.

The tigers are actually not bad replicas (they were actually old T-34's with some body work!). Millers unit knocks them out with their sticky bombs they have made, the tigers are not destroyed but they have thrown tracks and cant move but can still shoot.

Anyway here is the part thats an error although only a war nut or WW2 vet would notice...the other two "tanks" actually appear to be self propelled guns similar to this type

These tanks come into the town after the tigers and most of the German infantry have been wipe out, thanks largely to the sniper and his m1919 in the bell tower. Heres the implausible part, the German tank appears to be about 100 yards away or less yet elevates its gun high enough to blow apart the sniper at the top of the bell tower. I know this is splitting hairs but being a war freak that is the first thing that occured to me when i saw this scene - how could it elevate its gun that high an angle, at that distance, to take out the guy in this 100 foot tall tower?

Interesting.

T. A. Gardner · #52 (**permalink**) April 7th, 2009, 05:31 PM

Some inaccuracies from SPR:

There are no Tiger tanks in Normandy when SPR is supposed to take place. The 503rd S. Pz Abt. arrives days afterwards in the British sector. These are the first Tigers in Normandy.

The fighters that come at the end of the battle and strafe are P-51's. One at least is clearly black and white checkerboarded from the 78th FG an 8th AF outfit. 9th TAF would have been providing the air support and it had few, if any P-51 in June 1944. Most of the 9th's fighters were P-47 or P-38.

The radar station in the movie is a Mammut. This particular type of radar doesn't exist in the area where the movie is supposed to take place.

In the wheatfield scene why was the Sdkfz 251 operating alone? This is not normal for the Germans. A complete platoon or company should have been present.

Totenkopf · #53 (**permalink**) April 7th, 2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner

In the wheatfield scene why was the Sdkfz 251 operating alone? This is not normal for the Germans. A complete platoon or company should have been present.

That got me as well, there is no way that vehicle would be alone. Perhaps if its platoon got killed but wouldn't it have been destroyed as well?

Also, being so close to an Allied occupied area; what was it doing creeping along at such a slow speed, and a wheat field with a tree line? Not a chance the driver would be so stupid.

Rubberman · #54 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WotNoChad?

Segregation of the nations involved is my least fave, almost as if the area of operations were demarked into convenient lanes, so U.S. troops rarely co-operate with or even just bump into any unit from another allied nation.

This seems to get worse as films get more modern too, so Longest Day has just about everyone in it, Bridge Too Far does too, SPR just doesn't, BoB has a bunch of Paras in bushes and a barn, and as for seeing a Canadian portrayed in a film...

Didn't see one but Canadian engineers were mentioned in BOB....about good as it gets I guess.

Joe · #55 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 09:17 PM

marc980;
I'm sure the "tank" that get's molotovs thrown at it was a Marder III, am I right?
Not sure, I havent seen the film in a long time.

A-58 · #56 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 11:13 PM

Wasn't there a British armored unit in one the "Band of Brothers" episodes, when they were in The Netherlands? The US paratroops had spotted some German tanks that were hidden in a village and warned the Brits about them, but they had their rules of engagement to follow, and I think the lead tank got hit? It wasn't an expanded scene, but at least the Brits were represented in the show, even if it was a small segment.

urqh · #57 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 11:35 PM

You would pick that one...I would have picked the anti air craft guys on the departure airfields in UK....but no you go and pick the armour one that riles and ranks with most of us over here....The typical British tankman of ww2 apparantly....ooohhhh errrr....sorry cant go there...I have my orders...more tea vicar? The only thing they didnt show there was the tankman saying see you in Berlin Yank...

They did do the episode where they helped get some of 1st airborne back across the river though. That was pretty good, I cant remember the name of the initial Brit officer in the scene before, giving the o group..but was name of serving officer in the airborne div at the time.

A-58 · #58 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urqh

You would pick that one...I would have picked the anti air craft guys on the departure airfields in UK....but no you go and pick the armour one that riles and ranks with most of us over here....The typical British tankman of ww2 apparantly....ooohhhh errrr....sorry cant go there...I have my orders...more tea vicar? The only thing they didnt show there was the tankman saying see you in Berlin Yank...

They did do the episode where they helped get some of 1st airborne back across the river though. That was pretty good, I cant remember the name of the initial Brit officer in the scene before, giving the o group..but was name of serving officer in the airborne div at the time.

And the one when after the end of Market Garden, when the British paras were with the Yanks, drinking beer and hollering "Currahee." How about that one then? Better now? I forgot about the AA crews at the airfield. And there was the British soldier dressed up like a German on the airfield that loaned his lugar to the American, and when he started to run off with it, the German dressed Brit called him down on it....That's about all I can remember now.

Friedrich · #59 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 11:48 PM

I'll say something in favour of Battle of Britain, at least because our friend Martin doesn't need to be hit on such a soft nerve...

How many other WWII films have actually used the combat scenes of BoB? I can think of at least two: Dark Blue World and The Tuskeege Air Men, both of the 90s, when visual effects were more advanced...

urqh · #60 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 11:52 PM

Too true...I'll hear no critisism of Battle of Britain....especially the scene where they bombed the pensioners pub...That must have happened to many....No wonder we didnt want peace..you just dont bomb folks pubs....

formerjughead · #61 (**permalink**) April 19th, 2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urqh

Too true...I'll hear no critisism of Battle of Britain....especially the scene where they bombed the pensioners pub...That must have happened to many....No wonder we didnt want peace..you just dont bomb folks pubs....

Godless Savages that lot........Gerry was asking for it he was.

A-58 · #62 (**permalink**) April 20th, 2009, 12:15 AM

Those pubs, is that where the "Drunk and Disorderly" regiment that Stefan referred to was raised?

Martin Bull · #63 (**permalink**) April 20th, 2009, 06:40 AM

Just for the record, the bombed pub in BofB is the 'Rose and Crown', as in : -

' They got the Rose'n'Crahn...they got the Rose'n'Crahn....'

The un-bombed pub where Christopher Plummer argues with Susannah York is The Jackdaw at Denton in Kent - about two miles from Hawkinge airfield....

urqh · #64 (**permalink**) April 20th, 2009, 09:21 AM

10 Points to Martin, starter for 10 no conferring....What number bus was it that the famous blitz pic of sitting in bomb crater was taken? Your bonus points are if you know its destination....I'm only asking cos I bet he knows....

ghost_of_war · #65 (**permalink**) April 20th, 2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

In the wheatfield scene why was the Sdkfz 251 operating alone?

It was supposedly recon.... if that's the case, I wouldn't send more than one.

Other movie beefs:

The misuse of 'flash & thunder' from SPR. Glad Spielberg and Hanks corrected that for BoB.

The final battle scene when the tank is crossing the bridge. The tank explodes AND THEN you see the '51 fly over.... ??

In Pearl Harbor, NO ONE IS SMOKING A CIGARETTE IN 19 FRIGGIN' 41?!?

In Pearl Harbor, when the girls are getting in to Pearl ( I think this was the scene), you can see the Arizona Memorial in the background.

In Pearl Harbor, one of the hangars says Est. 1951.

Interesting tidbits from Pearl Harbor - all of Roosevelt's (Voights) speaking parts were supposedly exact transcripts of what was said.

In the beginning, the stunt they pulled 'playing chicken' with the P-40's would have had them courtmartialed (sp?) immediately.

Another from Pearl Harbor, when they show the whole fleet sailing, there is clearly a nuclear submarine out front. It is easily distinguished by its teardrop shaped hull.

dead_celeb · #66 (**permalink**) April 26th, 2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc780

this is a good post, ok heres one. Maybe someone cann dispell it for me.

From Saving Private Ryan. Te scene towards the end where Tom hanks and his men have found Ryan. Ryan refuses to leave his buddies and as the town is about to be assaulted by the Germans Capt Miller (Hanks) organizes the company sized outfit to defend the town.
Remember the American sniper in Millers unit is ordered into the town Bell tower to scout for the oncoming Germans. He hauls up his sniper rifle up to the top of the bell tower along with the squads m1919 machine gun and 1000 belted rounds. He signals to miller he sees 2 tiger tanks, 2 other tanks, and 50 troops on the way into the town. The American unit takes positions.

The tigers are actually not bad replicas (they were actually old T-34's with some body work!). Millers unit knocks them out with their sticky bombs they have made, the tigers are not destroyed but they have thrown tracks and cant move but can still shoot.

Anyway here is the part thats an error although only a war nut or WW2 vet would notice...the other two "tanks" actually appear to be self propelled guns similar to this type

These tanks come into the town after the tigers and most of the German infantry have been wipe out, thanks largely to the sniper and his m1919 in the bell tower. Heres the implausible part, the German tank appears to be about 100 yards away or less yet elevates its gun high enough to blow apart the sniper at the top of the bell tower. I know this is splitting hairs but being a war freak that is the first thing that occured to me when i saw this scene - how could it elevate its gun that high an angle, at that distance, to take out the guy in this 100 foot tall tower?

I would like to add, I have no idea what type of self propelled gun it is supposed to be. I know a bit about such things, and have never seen any pictures of a German self propelled gun that looks like the one in that scene.
The Germans did make use of a lot of captured and adapted weapons, so it could be some unusual type I have never seen before. Particuarly France 1944, they may have been making use of all kinds of strange surplus and adapted weapons.

blacksnake · #67 (**permalink**) April 26th, 2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead_celeb

I would like to add, I have no idea what type of self propelled gun it is supposed to be. I know a bit about such things, and have never seen any pictures of a German self propelled gun that looks like the one in that scene.
The Germans did make use of a lot of captured and adapted weapons, so it could be some unusual type I have never seen before. Particuarly France 1944, they may have been making use of all kinds of strange surplus and adapted weapons.

To the best of my knowledge dead_celeb, the SPG portrayed in the film is supposed to be the SdKfz 138 Marder III. A class of "Tank Destroyer" built on a Panzer II chassis that first saw service in 1942. Weather any were available at the time and location portrayed in the film I do not know.

urqh · #68 (**permalink**) April 26th, 2009, 11:24 PM

Not exactly a war movie, but watched Elizabeth Town with Orlando Bloom yesterday...feelgood movie...all ok till end...last scene...summing up his mood...a pic of American bombers on a daylight mission comes up, he talks over it...something like, The British SPECIAL air force had a motto, he who risks all wins...

I had to be forceably stopped from kicking the telly round the room.

Totenkopf · #69 (**permalink**) April 27th, 2009, 01:10 AM

Another from SPR.
I know we cant have 10hour long movies but the producer really spat on the Omaha beach defenders didn't they? They took the beach in a Matter of five minutes?

paratrooper506 · #70 (**permalink**) April 27th, 2009, 02:15 AM

well I think this has already been covered but you notice how in band of brothers every shot the germans fire misses almost every time but every time an american soldier fires a shot the german is dead

paratrooper506 · #71 (**permalink**) April 27th, 2009, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-58

Wasn't there a British armored unit in one the "Band of Brothers" episodes, when they were in The Netherlands? The US paratroops had spotted some German tanks that were hidden in a village and warned the Brits about them, but they had their rules of engagement to follow, and I think the lead tank got hit? It wasn't an expanded scene, but at least the Brits were represented in the show, even if it was a small segment.

It was,nt the lead tank that got hit it was the second tank I think it was a church hill tank but when the sherman came around the corner and then the other tank the second one got hit

Tomcat · #72 (**permalink**) April 27th, 2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

Another from SPR.
I know we cant have 10hour long movies but the producer really spat on the Omaha beach defenders didn't they? They took the beach in a Matter of five minutes?

HAHA

The whole "5 Hours later" on a black screen".

dead_celeb · #73 (**permalink**) April 27th, 2009, 05:08 PM

SPR-
I'm not sure this would exactly count as an 'inaccuracy' as such, but the German soldier whom they capture and then spare his life at the radar station, who then reappears to fight them again near the end is portrayed in something of a morally heavy handed way I think.

He is cowardly, squirming to save his life, then a brutal killer. And he is, as far as I can recall, the only German character we get to know.

But then, I suppose a film from the American perspective is hardly likely to feature a really likeable German soldier...'Ja, after ze war I am going to set up an orphanage for leetle puppies....BANG'

dead_celeb · #74 (**permalink**) April 27th, 2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksnake

To the best of my knowledge dead_celeb, the SPG portrayed in the film is supposed to be the SdKfz 138 Marder III. A class of "Tank Destroyer" built on a Panzer II chassis that first saw service in 1942. Weather any were available at the time and location portrayed in the film I do not know.

I did a bit of a Google investigating, and the Saving Private Ryan Online Encyclopedia says-

''Although the first tank destroyer seen is clearly a German Marder III (Ausf. M), the second (the one destroyed by Horvath) was a bit harder to identify, and appears to be a Swedish Sav m/43 assault gun, a type of armor that the 2nd SS Panzer Division would certainly not have been using.''

So my suspicions are confirmed!

formerjughead · #75 (**permalink**) April 27th, 2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead_celeb

SPR-
I'm not sure this would exactly count as an 'inaccuracy' as such, but the German soldier whom they capture and then spare his life at the radar station, who then reappears to fight them again ......

I never realized, until now, it was the same guy.

As far as seeing Brits : there is a scene in "To Hell and Back" where Audie Murphey's platoon walks past several Brits drinking tea on the side of a road and there is a short discussion with them.

Brad