True...

But they did a good job... didnt take many prisoners though...

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Just as ruthless as the SS they fought...

They had to call a lot of Canadian artillery in to support them though...

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Thoughts on Military History
Cornish Scale Modellers
Ross' Military Modelling and Art

Well they did have alot of Germans heading towards them... I would imagine it was touch and go at somepoints. I seem to remember there was alot of CQB there.

Poles ruthless? I can believe that... especially when fighting the SS.

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

I can. Very ruthless when surrounded...

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Thoughts on Military History
Cornish Scale Modellers
Ross' Military Modelling and Art

Well, you can think what you want, but the fact is that they were not ready at all. The Franco-British armies were not even remotely comparable to their 1914 counterparts.

Less courage? I doubt it… less competence, less will to fight, less hatred against the enemy, take your pick. But it was not lack of courage.

Don't you think we'll bore to death would it not be for these Poles who keep arguing the same things over and over?

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Ah... but Freddy you are forgetting the old joke...

"1000 French Rifles for sale - Only dropped once."

Sorry matey... couldnt resist it!

But I agree with your statements.

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Have You read Steven Ambrose "D-Day"?
is that true about polish soldiers who executed 800 SS-man and they gave the rest 200 to US GI's?
Yanks asked them why only 200 they were supposed to hand over around 1000 POW it was somewhere around Falaise

Polish Air Force pilots who escaped to France, then the United Kingdom, and helped save England during the Battle of Britain. Treated with disdain at first by their Allied partners, the pilots quickly became legendary for their fearless aerial exploits throughout the war. The Kosciuszko Squadron is credited with shooting down 126 German planes in six weeks of combat, more “kills” than were credited to any other squadron attached to the RAF during that same period. Nine of the Kosciuszko Squadron pilots become aces, and five were awarded the RAF’s Distinguished Flying Cross.

Next question please [img]smile.gif[/img] )))

Poles where First or last?


The Wilhelmshaven German commander surrenders this main German U-boot base to Colonel A. Grudziński

The Mayor of Breda (Van Slobbe), giving a welcome speech to the 1st Armoured Division which liberated Breda.

First or Last?

The Mayor of Breda (Van Slobbe), giving a welcome speech to the 1st Armoured Division which liberated Breda.

First or Last?

Many of the books dealing with WWII either deliberately, or through lack of proper research by the authors omit the involvement of Polish troops in the Italian Campaign and especially the battles for Monte Cassino, Ancona and Bologna. Monte Cassino is most commonly referred as an Allied victory. Some books give the credit to the French colonial troops. (!) sic

Breakthrough the Gustav Line was indeed an Allied victory, capturing of the Monte Cassino Hill and the Abbey, Hills 593 and 569, San Angelo and Mas Albaneta was solely a Polish effort.


In the early morning of 12 May 1944, following a two-and-half-hour bombardment, the Kresowa infantry attacked towards San Angelo and the Carpathian Rifles towards the infamous Hill 593.

The artillery proved less effective than hoped for, and Polish loses soon mounted. The Carpathian Rifles gained a tenuous grip on Hill 593, but in a few hours' fighting had already lost 20 percent of their strength. Gen. Anders called his bloodied units back to their start lines in the evening.

Although no ground had been gained Gen. Leese complimented the Poles, noting that without their sacrifices the British drive across the Rapido River into the valley below would not have succeeded. Polish 2nd Corps drew away reserves and artillery that would otherwise have been directed against British XIII Corps .

On 16 May, XIII Corps nearly had the monastery cut off, and on 17 May the second Polish attack begun. This time Poles were supported by the Sherman tanks from the Polish 2nd Armoured Brigade. By nightfall they had a weak grip on Hill 593 overlooking the Monastery. That night most of the surviving German paratroopers began to retreat to avoid being captured, and on 18 May the Poles brushed past their rearguards and the 12th Podolski Lancers Regiment raised the red and white national flag over the Monte Cassino monastery.

In the week's fighting the 2nd Corps had suffered appalling losses; there were 4,199 casualties, 25 percent (over 1,150 ) of these dead.

Following the Cassino Battle, the 2nd Corps took part in the drive up the Adriatic coast, capturing Ancona on 20 July1944 and Bologna in April 1945.

Poles liberating Bologna

Gen. Rudnicki shaking hand with the US officer entaring Bologna just right after Poles

So Poles were First or Last???

diploma given to polish troops for libarating Bologna

So only Poles fought there then?

Jeez... My Granddad must have been Polish then... [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Then I suppose all those Indians, British, Americans, Kiwis and Free Poilus were doing nothing at Cassino, whilst they use the poor Poles as cannon fodder.

The fact is that at the time when the Poles took the ruins of the abbey, the Allies had broken the front at the Liri valley and the entire German line was pulling out.

The Poles were very skilled and very brave, but I don't think they could have succeeded at the time and circumstances that the 4th Indian division had taken.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

So it's RedBaronskiwicz from now on, then..?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

That would seem about right! Next stop Warsaw!

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

And in the end many Poles did fight in the Red Army as well. And very well indeed. Just not to forget that. General Anders, wasn´t it?

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And now over to a small sidenote and factoid, as I worked in the area for about a year and lived Breda during that time. There is a Polish military cemetary outside the city, an in the city there is a Panther? (I think it was) on display, with a plaque praising the Polish troops for the liberation.

As an observation I would like to point out that liberating Breda was brilliant idea, as it is a very nice place indeed!

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"Nervous wait for the whistle to blow
Rush of blood and over we go..."
- Iron Maiden, "Paschendale"

So only Poles fought there then?

Jeez... My Granddad must have been Polish then... [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img] </font>[/quote]Welcome to family mate [img]smile.gif[/img] )

The role of Poland in World War Two is often misunderstood and under appreciated. The myth that the Poles were easily and quickly knocked out of the war is just that - a myth. Poland had the fourth largest army combating the Germans(including forces fighting togheter with the red army, just like Norwegians, Czech and frech), the most highly decorated navy, the largest, and most effective, resistance organization, and made numerous other great contributions.

It was Poland responsible for the cracking of the German code, and the subsequent smuggling of an Enigma machine to Britain. This enabled the Allies to decode and read German messages, one of the greatest intelligence coups of all time, and one of the most important contributions of the war. Were it not for Poland, the war, at best, would have lasted longer, and at worst, would have ended in a German victory.
The main cotribution was the lives of over 6 mln citizens ( the biggest rate per capita)

Captured by the Soviets. Anders was eventually captured by the Soviets as they invaded from the east. He was taken to the infamous Lublianka prison in Moscow where he was interrogated and tortured by the NKVD. His situation changed dramatically when the Nazis invaded Russia. A Soviet-Polish agreement was made for the formation of a new army on the territories of the USSR. Anders was freed and named commanding general. Poles who had been deported from their homes when the Soviet Union invaded Poland were set free from Siberia, Kazachstan and othe regions of USSR to join the new army.
Anders' Army. When General Anders reviewed his troops for the first time, he found them half-starved and in rags. Out of the one and a half million people deported from their homes in Eastern Poland, only a few hundred thousand deportees made it out of Siberia alive. Women, children, and elderly men followed the army as their only chance for survival. The Soviets refused to aid the refugees but General Anders ordered the meager army rations to be split up to feed the refugees. His actions helped many orphans survive their horrible circumstances. Negotiations between Stalin, Churchill, and the Polish forces led to the transfer of the 100,000 people strong II Polish Corps to Iran under British control. The resulting corps became one of the most formidable military formations of the war. Its principal, and unforgettable, achievement was the capturing of Monte Cassino on May 17-18, 1944, after three attempts by others had failed. Anders subsequently led it in the battles up the Adriatic Coast and in the clearance of the Po Valley.