Was there any chance what so ever, if the correct decisions were made, could Germany have beaten the Soviet Union.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

In my opinion, it was always a longshot. Russia is just too damn big. Maybe if the Japanese had declared war on the SU, and Hitler had actually invaded in the spring, and Moscow had been taken and held, along with Stalingrad, and they had just waited out the winter...maybe. Just maybe.

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"Et tu Brute? Then fall Caesar."

Very very slim at best.

Here is my list of things that would have increased the chances of Germany being able to win a war against the Soviet Union.
</font>

• Take German war production to 100% much earlier.</font>
• Give Mussolini no military support whatsoever in his fiascos in Africa and the Balkans.</font>
• Create a mechanized logistical infrastructure that can keep up with the blitzkrieg.</font>
• Plan for the campaign into Russia to last at least through the winter and equip accordingly.</font>
• Plan to exploit anit-Soviet feelings in occupied areas like the Ukraine to minimize partisan activity.</font>
• Develop an 8.8 cm tank like the Panther by 1938 and work out the mechanical reliability problems in time for the advance into Russia.</font>
• Develop a variable gauge train system to utilize the Russian rail system.</font>
• Develop heavy bombers to allow interdiction of Russian industry and supply lines.</font>
• Develop low temperature lubricants for all equipment used in the advance.</font>
• Begin a breeding program at the end of WWI to increase the population of military aged men for WWII.</font>

These few simple things would have given the German forces a chance of success. It probably still would not have been enough.

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Yeah they could won but even if axis did take Moscow and stalingrad wat next by that time their loses would be unreplaceable for years and if more and more russians come from the east then the Germans would be given a bloody nose and start retreating i guess the red army would simply encircle the cities and retake them 1 by 1 .

yeah i guess the axis was foolish to fight a 2 front war which they would never win unless they didnt do that in the first place and planed it more carefully without making stupid ideas like trying to capture the oil fields when the war wasnt going their way,.

Ahhhh, the benefits of hindsight... I never understood why people want to twist history to make the Germs win [img]tongue.gif[/img] , but all right, I'm game. Here are just a few suggestions for the other side to make things even worse than they were.

UK & France
* Have the French invade the Rhineland when the Germans decide to send three battalions to occupy!
* Take a firm stand against the Czech occupation and Anschluss.
* Burn the Ruhr into the ground starting in 1939
* Mine the Skagerrak and the Rhine
* Accelerate development of the 6pdr
* Drop production on the lousy French fighters and accelerate the Dewoitine and Bloch fighters
* Develop and implement proper tank doctrine
* Lobby the US harder
* Send a top level delegation to Moscow with plenipotentiary powers to sells their souls to the devil instead of a couple of clowns
* Lobby Italy (leave them alone in Ethiopia, offer foodstuffs, Spitfires, the Tyrol, Trieste, Slovenia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Albania)
* Arm the Dutch and the Belgians

US
* Anchor USS Arizona in Tokio bay and dare the Japanese to sink it there!
* Stop playing isolationist games
* One word: Manhattan

SU
* Cancel the officer purge
* Cancel production of the lousy light tanks and bring forward 2 years production of T-34 and KV-1
* Bring forward production of JS-II (hell, if you can bring production of Panther forward why can't I do the same?)
* Implement a proper doctrine across the board for the Air Force
* Transfer the arms factories East before the invasion
* Drop the lousier planes and go ahead with the Yaks and Lavochkins
* Invade Romania
* Lobby Finland (offer them the Baltic countries and Sweden too )
* Lobby Turkey (offer them Greece and Bulgaria!)

How's that?

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Are Za strikes back nice touch. I posted the question on behalf of a fellow work colleague who insists Germany could had won, for the record my own point of view is no simple as that. The problem is my colleague just doses not see the big picture never mind its all good fun.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

ummm yeaH im not german k

Yes there was a chance IF it was approached in another was and Hitler chose to bring people on board.

General points already made

No.9

Are yes the other one good point No.9

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

You also missed out treating the populace better. Many of the Western soviet people hated Stalin and treated Germany as the liberator. Who Knows!

I think the last one would very probably have done the trick. Hitler could have said to the people that once you finish Stalin you´ll get your own nation but no, he had to send SS to cleanse the countries and turned the people his enemies. Was it some 80 million people under German rule from under Stalin´s rule June 1941 to Dec 1941? You could get a couple of divisions from there and also get rid of the Partizan problem. Later on you could do whatever you like with these nations but first...arm them and send against Stalin. That´s what the Red Army did in 1944-45 turning Hitler´s previous allies to his enemies.

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Yes, there's a chance that they could.

If they had take Moscow first in the fall, this way they would have the control on the center of the soviets railway system so they could move up very quickly the next spring.

Also due to the fact that moscow is isolated german could rest on Moscow during the long and rough russian winter.

But, this operation would have been a lot more easier if Japanese were also attacking on their side. If they had conduct a real operations Stalin would have no choice but fight hard on two side. So maybe, german could have won on russia.

Thank you

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"Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily"
Napoleon Bonaparte

carry on the nuclear project
and NUKE everyone. by plane, rockets, and submarine.

Ah, yes, that's what the Napoleon Bonaparte you quote in your signature did. If it worked for Boney it should work for Hitler, surely.

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Not exactly, these two situations were a lot different...

German were struck by winter...

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"Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily"
Napoleon Bonaparte

It is possible that germany could of won a war against su.one key factor could be.

To advance at speed and never halt once untill Moscow was taken when they halted in the end of 1941 they were finished the red army would pin them down so speed is very very important to stand any chance i guess.

To ensure full control of the skies

To ensure no problems with supply lines

To focus 100% attention to the drive towards moscow and not any where else on the front.

To destroy any defences around moscow quickly before they were finshed as this would slow down the advance.

To use all the artillery to open up a hole towards moscow.

there might of been a chance but maybe 1:20 maybe possible

To ensure full control of the skies: They did

To ensure no problems with supply lines:Too long

To focus 100% attention to the drive towards moscow and not any where else on the front.Not enough trucks/tanks

To destroy any defences around moscow quickly before they were finshed as this would slow down the advance.:Marching on foot and horseback slowed the advance.

To use all the artillery to open up a hole towards moscow. Why not use your airpower?

there might of been a chance but maybe 1:20 maybe possible

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yeah nice for pointing that out just shows there a clever clever people are well done clap clap!

This kind of shallow subjects have been for the last weeks been repeated over and over, ad nauseam. They are the same old retread 'Let's play WW2 again and this thime have the Germans win'. These are already annoying enough - beside the point that they belong in the What-If section - and they become especially so when they are carelessly written. I am not a native English writer, but I do make an effort to write and use my punctuation correctly. Having to read the same old hoary stuff written carelessly only adds to the annoyance feeling.

As nothing new is being added, wouldn't the Moderator close this thread?

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Thanks everyone, I have shown the posts to my fellow work colleague and we have a result he has decided to read more books on WW2.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard