I was admiring forum member Mussolini's sig graphic (nice work!) a couple days back, and it got me thinking. I really know VERY little about Mussolini- what kind of ruler he was in Italy, how he was looked at by Hitler, etc.

My real "question"- was Mussolini an "equal" partern in the Axis, in theory and/or practice? Was he a full participant in the whole thing, or was he more of just a "lackey"- he happened to be a fascist ruler who basically hopped on Hitler's coattails?

I know it's kind of a vague question... just something I was thinking about, and haven't had the time to do any real searching myself on.

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Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Good question. I always wondered how they got off with out being occupied after the war by all the allies as in Germany and Japan by the US. I don't think there were any war crimes trials either, even though they used gas on the Ethiopians and perhaps others.

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

hmmm...dam that's a good question!

And I've myself also wondered why Italy got off not being occupied!

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Facta non verba. "Deeds, not words"

Well, the fact that they surrendered and became Allies in September 1943 must have helped!

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From what I know, Mussolini was a man who wanted to be popular. He wanted his people to think he was a great leader and wanted his army to win in Africa. He tried to show his country as an equal to Germany but failed as his army was ill-prepared as we know. As the war went on, and his fronts grew (Greece) He had no choice but to let Germany bail him out. At that point, Mussolini started taking a back seat as his army was regarded as pathetic.

Now, what Hitler thought about the Italian. He saw him as a father of Facsism. Hitler respected and looked up to Mussolini for most of the 1930's. Over time, he saw him for what he was, but still thought of him highly. How we know he thought him highly was the daring rescue to save Mussolini. Hitler also declared (when Italy surrendered) Northern Italy to be true Italy and put it under Mussolini (In name mainly).

Plenty of books about Crazy, e.g. Mussolini as Diplomat by Richard Lamb, good remainder prices in the US. To reply in part, IMHO, Mussolini’s greatest agenda was first an overwhelming desire for power, and second for a prominent Italy on the International stage with him at the helm. Various episodes suggest to me he though more of himself than his country.

To start from at least circa 1850 is a good idea, I think, as the cause and effect of events explains so much – and gets rid of numerous inaccurate thumbnails of convenience which mostly originate in utter propaganda.

Prior to 1922 (when he was appointed to power by the King), Mussolini changed political horses several times and actually started out as a Socialist with very left views. When he was born, Italy as a Nation some 20 years old, struggling to establish its place among its European neighbours, most far more powerful and most Imperial – as was the nature of the times.

Militarily, Italy tried hard to play catch-up to its superior neighbours, at the time when any country could not be considered a serious ‘player’ if it didn’t have reasonable ‘muscle’ and didn’t perform Imperial acts. Italy was slowly getting there, but restrained in its progress due to lack of funds and the fact that Italy has no coal of its own to fuel her industry. One thing that can fairly be said of Italy from 1859 to W.W.II, it almost never entered into a conflict with its forces adequately equipped, funded or prepared for the task, and continually ignored rational advice from its commanders. viz: Abyssinia 1896, Tripolitana (Libya) 1911, W.W.I 1915, Spanish Civil War 1936, W.W.II 1940.

Italy was classist (feudal), and the example of the Russian Revolution a real threat to their domestic composition. Social unrest and serious strikes among the ‘workers’ were meat and drink to the Communists who sought to encourage and foster events to their own ends under the ‘workers of the world unite’ ethics. The Italian militant opposition to social upheaval was the 'Fasci Italiani di Combattimento' movement, formed in 1919 by Mussolini though not a political party until 1921, a few months after the Italian Communist Party was formally established.

The fascists achieved seats in parliament and Mussolini was offered to the King as the one who would restore civil order in the country, under threat of a fascist ‘March on Rome’ and other cities. The timid King, disposed towards a peaceful life and fearful of any prospect of Civil unrest, (and wrongfully advised and intimidated by fascist elements in court), appointed Mussolini in 1922 to lead a coalition government with a one year mandate. Once ‘in’, Mussolini strengthen his position in various ways, making him more powerful while diminishing and/or removing any and all opposition. There were instances of opponents permanently ‘disappearing’, though generally dissenters were imprisoned, which while not pleasant or lawful, was not the same as nazis Concentration Camps which Italy did not have. That said, if you were reported for just making a disparaging joke about Mussolini or the fascists, you probably would be arrested and beaten-up and/or imprisoned for several months. The net result was a one Party State where everything was controlled by the fascists. Italy’s leading Socialist (not Communist), Giacomo Matteotti was murdered by the fascists in 1924. In 1925, Mussolini was virtually unimpeachable after parliament (now fascist), removed the King’s powers to appoint and change government, reducing him to a virtual figurehead.

However, there couldn’t be all stick and no carrot for the people. Industry and communications worked as scheduled (there was no option to do otherwise), the Mafia was effectively checked, and projects such as to put shoes on the feet of every child and public works such as the marsh land reclamation south of Anzio were civil successes.

Italy was treated badly in respect of promises and expectations for taking part in W.W.I, and continued to be regarded, (justifiable in some respects), as backward and of minor significance. Mussolini had self-professed dreams of changing Italy from a Nation of ‘artists and lovers’ to a ‘warrior’ Nation, and raising it’s profile Internationally. He wanted to re-establish ‘Mare Nostro’, being control of the Mediterranean as with the ancient Roman Empire. With the British and French fleets there, it was hardly realistic though he had no intention of challenging either militarily. Territorially he wanted to move around the northern and western Adriatic coast, down to at least Albania, which was fast becoming neo-Italian anyway. North Africa was costly and not exactly productive for Italy, but it kept them in the ‘Empires’ club. Oil had not yet been discovered in Libya, and the issue of payback in Abyssinia for their atrocities 40 years earlier was hardly for economic reasons. Actually, Italy did not do that much to bring in the Lira, but continuously found ways to spend it.

Issues such as involvement in the Spanish Civil War and Abyssinia strained Anglo-Italian relationships somewhat, (publicly anyway), and helped provide fuel for Italophiles such as Britain’s Anthony Eden, which only served to edge Mussolini further towards Hitler – whom he never liked. Mussolini looked for deals which he thought stood a chance of profiting Italy, with him at the helm of course. It’s hard to see him blindly committing to any other country out of any sense of duty, as no other country had done the same for Italy.

Whatever Mussolini may have promised Hitler, he wasn’t prepared to drag Italy into another World War as, (a) there was neither the funds, resources or popular will for one, and (b) unless there was clear gain at the end of it. In 1940 when all but France had fallen to Germany on the mainland, and that was poised to, Mussolini pitched in with Hitler in the hopes that Italy would only be involved for a short time – with the winner, and receive the parts of France and Yugoslavia (arguably and historically ‘Italian’) as a reward. Even after he declared war on Britain, Mussolini offered to rescind this if Britain would deal on Gibraltar. As we know, things didn’t work out as he hoped and he lost everything for himself, while in some ways, despite the awful price Italy may have just come out ahead?

Another thing I’d like to comment on, with Communism you can refer back to the works, manifesto, of Marx and Engels and the expansion policies they contain. It is not so with fascism. Because of the ties etc of European Communism (and arguably South American Communism) with Moscow, it’s easy to inadvertently think of European fascism in the same way. While there were others, the popular examples are Germany, Italy and Spain, but the only thing that actually ties all three is that each had a dictator and each was totally against Communism. There was no such thing as a fascist manifesto all three subscribed to, or any polit centre. Just as being a democracy does not automatically mean countries are identical or subservient to foreign hierarchy. Hitler, Mussolini and Franco should be therefore evaluated as separate entities and not treated as divisions of a greater whole.

No.9

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Great stuff, 9. That pretty well sums things up. The self/Italy interest aspect was one of the areas I wasn't sure of-how much he really "bought into" Hitler and the Nazi extent of extremism.

Cheers!

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Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Yes, i believe that the good old Il Duce wanted very much to be like Hitler and Germany. I dont think he was too happy when he had to get the Germans to send him help in Africa. There was also a lot of resentment to the Facists as the war went on, lots of partisans which is how Mussolini and his mistress were finally captured, beaten, hanged, and killed. They might have been shot too. I am not really sure how much Hitler cared from the Italians fighting in the North African Campaign, as i remember him quaoting it as only being a shideshow...if Hitler had fully concerntrated on it, i think we would be signing a different song....oh, and heres that inspiring sig [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Erm…….Mussolini, ”beaten, hanged, and killed”, yes, but not in that order.

Mussolini’s demise is a case in point re my previously stated ‘thumbnails of convenience’. Usual the sequence is heavily condensed and skips rapidly between a few salient points which hopefully are the main ones.

As the ‘last days’ of Hitler have been ‘done to death’, perhaps interesting to take a closer look at the last days of Mussolini?

From various texts and witness statements, let’s take it from 26th April with Mussolini at Como, (having left Milan), waiting for a force of 3000 fascists to arrive to backbone a ‘last stand’. He’s written to his wife Rachele, delivered by courier, and told her to save herself and the children; received a reply, and they have spoken on the phone at about 02:00am when he said; ”I realise quite well that all is over.”. His wife, with young sons, decides not to head straight for Switzerland as advised but goes to Como to see him, a last time. Before leaving him at Como, he advised her; ”If they try to stop you or harm you, ask to be handed over to the British.” As it happens, she was turned back at the Chiasso border post and returned to Como by which time Mussolini had moved on.

04:30am, Mussolini drives himself in his Alfa Romeo convertible, further north along the lakeside to Menaggio with Graziani, ministers, officials and an SS escort under Lt. Birzer. They arrived about 05:30am and Mussolini goes to the villa of the local fascist leader to sleep. While there, two Companies of Salo Republican guards with a couple of armoured cars arrived. Mussolini’s girlfriend, Claretta (Clara) Petacci, was with them and joined him in Villa Castelli. One of Mussolini’s officers was afraid the concentration of vehicles would draw too much attention and ordered most back down the road to Cadenabbia. Reluctantly, they withdrew – some then thinking Mussolini intended to make a lone dash to Switzerland, not knowing he was awaiting the force of 3000.

Around 09:30am. Mussolini emerged and sent the remaining vehicles to the village of Grandola, about 14 miles from the Swiss border. Shortly after, Mussolini, with entourage and SS escort, left for the Miravalle Hotel in Grandola, where he walked in the gardens for a while with Claretta. The weather was wet and miserable and the wireless only brought news of fascist defeats and surrenders, the Germans now in retreat homewards.

Mussolini repeatedly proclaimed that fascism must be saved by an example of a last stand in the mountains. With no sign or news of the 3000, officials and officers, including Graziani, slowly slipped away for the Swiss border and/or surrender as many border guards by now had thrown in with the Partisans.

Mussolini decide not to wait any longer for the 3000, but leave for Menaggio and then north along the lakeside towards Valtellina. Lt. Birzer, SS escort, insisted his men were too tired, so Mussolini agree they should spend the night in Grandola and set-off at 05:00am the next day, 27th April.

In the small hours, news arrived of the 3000. Fasicts throughout in the region were surrendering to Partisans and only about 12 could be found to rally to him.

With the idea of any ‘last stand’ shattered, Mussolini with his few remaining followers, elected to join a German convoy of some 40 vehicles/200 men, commanded by Lt. Fallmeyer, heading north along the lakeside for Innsbruck via Dongo. Initially Mussolini drove himself in his Alfa, but shortly after passing Menaggio, decided, as advised by Birzer, to travel inside an armoured car.

The convoy continued up the lakeside road till, at about 07:00am and 3 miles north of Menaggio, they encountered a roadblock near the village of Musso consisting of several boulders and a large tree trunk. A few shots were exchanged and a Partisan was killed. This was followed by a truce when Partisan Capt. Davide Barbieri of the 52nd Garibaldi Brigade, advised Lt. Fallmeyer they could let the Germans pass but had strict orders to detain any Italians.

Such orders were quite typical as, with the exception of German units wanted for atrocities, the Italians were pleased to see the back of the Germans, but had blanket serious issues with Italian fascists. All knew this was only a lightly armed Partisan picket which the Germans could easily had brushed aside, but it was equally known considerably more serious Partisan forces were in the area and, for the moment, the Germans just wanted to get home.

Credit to Lt. Fallmeyer, he insisted anyone in his convoy must be allowed to pass, and was taken off to Partisan HQ at Morebegno to speak with higher ranks. Fallmeyer left at 08:00am and didn’t return until 02:00pm. During this time some people in the convoy got out (including a pastor) and wandered about, and Italian locals (including the local priest) came down to see what was going on – sorry if the blood’n’guts brigade find this all too civilised. During this time it appears some disclosed/became aware there were fascists in the column and even that they included Mussolini. However, all were waiting for the return of the German and Partisan commanders. Just before Fallmeyer returned, one witness stated Claretta Petacci entered the armoured car wearing blue overalls and a crash-helmet, and Mussolini spoke to her. Claretta and her brother travelled with the convoy in a car bearing Spanish Diplomatic markings. Its seems therefore, she put this get-up on to move to Mussolini without being recognised.

Fallmeyer returned and said the only agreement possible was that the Germans may pass but all Italians must stay behind, and that the vehicles would be searched at Dongo. Mussolini claimed it was a deal to save the Germans at the expense of the Italians, and him. Realistically this is very doubtful as it follows the standard Partisan mandate. Lt. Birzer suggested Mussolini put on a German greatcoat and helmet and hide in one of the trucks. Mussolini protested he would not leave his colleagues, when Claretta and Birzer urged him he had no choice. As the convoy moved off, a tearful Claretta jumped at the tailgate of a passing truck and had to be restrained by Birzer.

The convoy moved off, together with the Spanish plated car, at about 03:00pm and the remaining Italians were apprehended undramatically, save for one who attempted to drive off in the armoured car, which was soon stopped, and a couple (including the one in the armoured car) who jumped into the lake and were apprehended later and sent on to Dongo.

At Dongo the convoy pulled up in the main square where the ‘search’ took place amid a bit of theatre as it was fairly clear the Partisans had been tipped off as to who they could expect to find. After checking the first few trucks, a political official of the Partisans, Urbano Lazzaro, sent Partisan Guiseppe Negri to search inside one truck where he found a man apparently asleep/drunk in the back wearing a greatcoat of an Anti-Aircraft Corporal and a German helmet. German soldiers said he was just ‘sleeping it off’ which Negri accepted but immediately went and reported to Lazzaro. Lazzaro climbed in and asked Mussolini if he was Italian, to which Mussolini replied; ”Yes, I am Italian”, coupled with an eye-to-eye stare that made Lazzaro jump back.

Mussolini was taken courteously to the Town Hall and offered the comfort of the Mayor’s Office. He sat bare headed in his fascist uniform, and previously had not resisted as his sub-machinegun (which he carried constantly) and pistol were removed. Only as they took his two document cases containing some money and papers did he protest, advising they contained documents of great historical importance, and, for the future of Italy. Despite post war claims they contained letters from Churchill offering asylum etc, it is now known the cases and contents were sold to British Intelligence shortly afterwards and contained no such letters but documents useful to his defence in the event of a trial. Any papers he didn’t want seen were probably among those dumped by his order in a lake near Milan. Oh and ‘the gold’? Such gold bars and art works Mussolini may have had, (note – Mussolini, not the Germans), had been sent ahead by truck direct from Milan, and were; apprehended by Partisans at Dongo who threw everything into the lake to deprive the fascists of its use, or, the drivers drove into the lake to stop the Partisans getting it, or, the vehicles were forced into the lake when the Partisans attacked, or, the trucks were seized by bandits/Germans – take your pick. All that can be said is the Italian Communists and some of their officials appeared to be quite well funded after the war, but, if you want to go diving in the lake………………

Part II to follow

No.9

One thing I like about Mussolini was those great facial expressions out of this world outstanding.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

oh, but you never saw him twiddle his thumbs backwards [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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I can not say I did Za.

Heck this forum has inspired me to buy a book of Mussolini.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

Then I suggest you read his son-in-law's memories too, Count Galeazzo Ciano.

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Za, what’s the title of the book.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

part II

> A note on Italy’s’ socio-political composition at the time may be worthwhile, and as Nationally and regionally it was complex, for the purpose of this story I propose we generalise. At opposite ends of this spectrum were the Communists and the fascists, with a variety of persuasions in-between, and a monarchy. After Mussolini was sacked and the ineffectual King ran away from Rome in June 1943, together with as many like politicians and commanders as could squeeze onto the boats, five leaders of prominent parties met and formed the Committee of National Liberation (CLN), which they hoped would replace the government. Shortly after some reform they got many of their wishes when the Allied Military Government gave them control of most of the free country. One key aspect of this coalition was that all parties agreed to put aside their political differences till the war was over and work together to achieve liberation. In January 1944, in occupied Milan, a counterpart to the CLN came into being, the Committee of National Liberation Upper Italy (CLNAI). Initially the Allies perceived it as being too left-wing to work with as it was chiefly originated by the Milan Communists, led by Luigi Longo. Nevertheless, with an effective Resistance and intelligence network and expanding Partisan Corps it proved its effectiveness and became invaluable to the SOE and OSS. As the number of Partisan Brigades grew, by mutual consent the CLN in Rome sent Gen. Raffaele Cadorna to co-ordinate all military activity in the north. Gen. Cadorna was widely accepted as A-political and a soldiers’ soldier of the highest quality. While there was some command friction in Milan, Cadorna was acknowledged and performed as overall commander, yet Longo and his Communist lieutenants remained not without political agenda and the influence of Palmiro Togliatti, head of the Italian Communist Part and Italian Vice-Premier in Rome. <


Liberation parade, Milan, 5th May, 1945
CLNAI chiefs, left to right: Mario Argenton (Liberal) – Giovanni Stucci (Socialist) – Ferruccio Parri (Actionist) – Gen. Raffaele Cadorna – Luigi Longo (Communist) – Enrico Mattei (Christian Democrat)


………to resume with Mussolini……………

While Mussolini sat in the Dongo Mayor’s office fielding various questions from inquisitive locals, the area Partisan leader, Count Pier Bellini, sent a runner to Como to advise of the capture and bring back orders from the CLNAI in Milan, whom Como would contact. Meanwhile, the German convoy was allowed to move on, (Mussolini having told his escort not to resist his capture), leaving Claretta and her brother attempting to convince the Partisans they were Spanish.

Around 07:00pm, still waiting for orders, Bellini decided to move Mussolini somewhere more secure due to the possibility of a rescue attempt. In torrential rain he was driven further up the mountains to the frontier guards’ barracks at Germasino. There the Partisans lit a fire for him and prepared a meal, whereafter Mussolini captivated them with his oratory. Before retiring to bed about 11:00pm, he presented them with a gold watch to, ”remember him by”, and willingly wrote the following; ’The 52nd Garibaldi Brigade arrested me today, Friday 27th April, in the square of Dongo. The treatment I received during and after the arrest was correct.’

Back in Dongo, Bellini went to see Claretta, detained in the Town Hall in a separate room from her brother. She continued to maintain she was Spanish, (though had no papers), and when advise Mussolini was arrested, denied knowing him. Bellini broke the charade when he told her he knew who she and her brother were. She asked who he was, and if he was ‘a friend’? Bellini replied; ”An enemy”. Claretta then began to explain her love for Mussolini was for the person and not his position, and asked if she could be locked up with him, and it if came to it, killed with him. Bellini left without replying. [img]redface.gif[/img]

The runner sent to Como arrived there about 06:30pm, and, failing to find a CLNAI officer, reported to the newly appointed town Prefect, lawyer Gino Bertinelli. He told the runner to return immediately to Dongo and tell his commander to hide Mussolini away from the town as a rescue attempt was likely, and meanwhile he would try to contact Milan. The runner went back to Dongo where the relocation of Mussolini had already taken place.

Contact was made that night between the Como CLNAI officer, Colonel Baron Sardagana – a personal friend of Cadorna, and the Milan HQ, advising Mussolini had been arrested. The response however, was that they already knew and orders would be relayed shortly. Presently a telegram came instructing Mussolini be immediately brought to Milan. Sardagana phoned Milan and argued it was far too risky at present. After some discussion it was agreed he should be taken to a Partisan safehouse in the village of Blevio, 4½ miles from Como across the lake. This order was relayed to Bellini in Dongo about 11:30pm, including the plan that Mussolini was to be moved as a wounded British officer. Two hours later, with Mussolini draped in a blanket, head bandaged and accompanied by a girl posing as a nurse, Bellini left the barracks and en route rendezvoused with another car containing three more Partisans and Claretta. It would appear Bellini was impressed by her declaration of love for Mussolini. [img]graemlins/dr.gif[/img]

The cars encounter several Partisan road blocks during their journey in the dark stormy night, and were even fired upon once. They stopped several miles north of Como when they saw rockets in the sky above the town, and once out of the cars could hear gunfire from its streets. Bellini supposed, correctly, this was part of the rapid American advance and the journey, with water crossing, was now far too dangerous. As an alternative, Mussolini and Claretta were taken to a mountain farmhouse near the village of Bonzanigo where the De Marias family who lived there had hidden Partisans in the past. The family instantly accepted the situation without question and made them as welcome as possible, though it wasn’t till Mussolini removed his bandages they realised who he was - not that it made any difference to their hospitality. Leaving two young Partisans on guard inside the house, Bellini and the others returned to Dongo. [img]graemlins/armcar.gif[/img]

….part III to follow…….

No.9

see in Abebooks, The Ciano Diaries.

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Thanks Za.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard