If interested in Knights Cross Recipients like I am, check this out. During my 12 years of doing research on these 7,320 odd German/Germanic recipients (not included are the appx 60 non-German recipients) and not ever seeing on any website nor published in any book, have I seen or known anything about these RKTs in particular. I take that back, there is one exception and that is: Ernst Tiburzy, and even then, there is not much about him nor is he widly known.

The purpose of this posting is to point out a few things that I never see, nor hear discussed or is (to the best of my knowledge--published) Anyway, the following recipients in their own, can be considered men who are never, or almost never discussed or mentioned in any way. I am thinking that is do to only the (mainstream RKTs) those from the Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe and the Waffen SS, are only talked about because of their notable service in their respective branches.

Anyway, I wanted to take some time out and bring some attention to the following RKTs: But first, I have a question.

Have you ever wondered if any Hitler Youth, men from the Reichsarbeitsdienst or Volkssturm (while serving in such organizations), had been a recipient of the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross? I sure as heck did. Well, if you continue to read, you will see for yourself; the product of some of my research into the subject.

Answer to the long question above is, yes, there are several men who fit into that catagory. They are:

Hitler Youth:
Gunther Nowak at, Hindenburg-Oberschlesian.

Reichsarbeitsdienst:
R.A.D. Feldmeister, Heinz Korn. 4th (heavy) Flak Detachment 232 in the R.A.D. 8/60.

Sturmabteliung:
S.A. Obergruppenfuhrer, Otto Herzog. Leader of Volkssturm in Fortress Breslau.

Volkssturm:
Ernst Tiburzy.
Jakob Hoffend.

Military Officers (mainly Army) in command of a Volkssturm unit:
Wilhelm Sitt, Battalion Leader of Volkssturm Cologne.
Karl Pakebusch, Battalion Leader in Berlin-Wedding.
Hauptmann Wilhelm Florschutz, C.O. of Volks Pioneer Brigade 47 (Motorized)
Karl Heer, Leader of 1/Volks Artillery Regiment 178.

I don't know if anyone here besides me thinks that things like this is interesting but, i'd sure like to know if you are?

Best regards - C.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Good stuff C.
Personally I'm often intrigued by the Ritterkruez, particularly by those who continued to wear them postwar while serving with the Bundeswehr (did they actually wear the denazified award much or at all?, Wasn't there an edict that they were entitled to when the Swastika was officially removed in the 50's or 60's?).
The RAD one surprises me most of all, I suppose wrongly as they had a combat role to play, any more details on that one?
It always seems an interesting award as it doesn't appear to be analogous with the VC etc.? not always awarded for pure Gallantry but could also be earnt by sustained actions or other less obvious contributions to the overall effort.
Almost something egalitarian about the honour until the PK and Signal got their hands on a holder, or maybe that's the real aspirational/motivational point of it, "You too could be a hero, join a service and you're eligible."
Cheers,
Adam.

(and sorry for all the questions, I really need a decent book on the thing but many I see seem so 'trashy'.)

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

Very interesting.

Anymore on the RAD winner?

Carl, Heinz Korn is actually in action with his 8.8cm and crew knocking out Soviet T-34's and the witnessing of his men and receiving of the is documented on film via the Deutsche Wochenschau propaganda footage. I have it in a 1945 clips, wish I could make copies but sadly they are from France through a former German Landser.
His 8.8cm weapon is one of the later war low-slun jobs and for the life of me off the top of my head I cannot remember the variant

E ~

Thanks Erich
I'm sure I read recently of one chap who only found he had been awarded one many years after the war when he was invited to a reunion? Can't find the article now.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

I would tend to agree with that von P.

just remembered it was a 8.8cm Flak 41 lowrider still on it's wheeled mount. when the gun fired the long rod barrel the whole thing shook from side to side, with the crewmen hanging on. The guys were in a perfect position with the long barrel hanging right above the shrubs-bushes with a slightly sunken depression off a road

Thanks, Adam, Erich and Vince.

Adam, heres what little I know of about their law and Swaz. On capitulation, it was outlawed but, there is alot of evidence where the law was not inforced. For instance, men who served in units that are from what the allies called "White units" were allowed in captivity, to wear whatever insignia and awards they had; that still had the Swaz on it. However, I don't think they did wear anything with a swaz still showing anywhere in public.

1957 was the year that they started to replace their awards with awards not having a swaz. A member of the former German Wehrmacht could exchange his WWII awards, for a like set of 1957 awards for free. That meant that they had to hand over their WWII awards to some authority, who in ture allegedly destroyed the WWII versions (but I doubt that had happened as much as one might think) and the awards recipient would then be presented with his new awards in the 1957 version. I personally know many German vets who did not give their awards away and many of them still had them. Case in point, was my longtime friend and Waffen SS RKT, Remy Schrijnen. Remy kept his awards and had them on display in a cabinte in his livingroom. When I got to visit with him and his wife in Sept 2000, Remy showed me where his awards were and they were in a nice presantation on a black velvet pillow. All his awards were there except for his VNV badge (which he had given away to some American collector some years earlier. However, he still had his collartabs and both cufftitles.

Remy Schrijnen attended several RKT reunions but had quit going to them a few years before his passing away because the President of the meeting (an RKT - Herr Jurgen Heinze I think?) got "into" it with Remy, because Remy had worn his original awards to the meeting. Remy's way of thinking on that was that he had earned the awards and he damn-well was going to wear them.

Now, the way around having to give up onew WWII awards was that the veteran himself, had to prove that he earned his awards as well as to have to pay for the 1957 awards.

The RAD had a certain amount of roles in combat but, i'm not knowledgable enough to know exactly what and how much.

Hi E, your correct about Heinz Korn but left out one thing, he and that 88 crew were not only a part of that unit but were also still a part of their RAD unit as well. I don't know any details yet but will be trying to do more research on them when I get closer to completing the list. One thing im not certain about is if his sub unit (the Flak unit) is a Luft unit or an Army one? I suspect Luft as the vast majority of the Flak were. This brings up from the dustbins that make up my memory, something I was told by a Luftwaffe veteran I had met at a militaria show about 5 years ago.

I don't remember his name but, he had been serving in a RAD Flak unit in 1943, and he and his gun crew, had been transferred to some Flak unit; as replacements. On his transfer, he was promoted to Feldwebel and was the Fuhrer of his gun crew. Though they were now in the Luftwaffe, they were also still in the RAD, as their RAD unit was still the parent unit. Anyway, all I can remember from the time we had been talking, is that he had lost his hearing in his left ear because of bombs hitting near his guns position. Also, he was never awarded his Iron Cross 1st class but he had been awarded his Luft Flak badge and his EK 2 and westwall medals.

Vince, Erich probably knows much more than I do on the RAD RKT. I can only wish that I had Erichs knowledge and contacts. ;-)

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

The German obsession with their war jewelry (and party jewelry) during the war always amazes me. I am not speaking about the present interest in collecting it. But rather the fact that German soldiers seemed to obsess over their badges and medals like an American private fresh out of bootcamp. Of course the same was true in regard to their uniforms. Not all were this way - such as those who were in constant heavy combat, like one man (Kurt Kleber) mentioned in Wittmann's unit who apparently dressed like a hobo (causing Wittmann to fear he would be shot by mistake as a Russian). But it seems like during the Nazi period especially there was almost the idea that fancy uniforms and badges were some how a major weapons system against the enemy. I constantly see this attitude as I read books by Germans who were in WWII where they constantly harp on the their uniforms and military jewelry. Only the U-boat men seem to have been immune to this disease - at least while at sea.