From 1933 to the start of the Second World war who in Europe really saw what Hitler stood for? I know that Winston Churchill for one saw Hitler rearming for war, he tried to warn the governments of the day which fell on deaf ears. So why did are leaders look the other way? Could they not face facts that Hitler was on a war path? Did the memories of WW1 come flooding back to haunt them?

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

I think most people were too busy minding their own business till it was too late. Hitler did a good job of hiding his true self to most of the mass. Churchill knew that Hitler is a person filled with hatred against mankind. I am not sure how he knew, but that was the reason from what I have read.

Neville thought that the Axis leaders could be reasoned with. Another thing was that many felt sorry for the Germans. They too thought the Versailles treaty to be too harsh. As for Britain they did not have the power to do anything on the mainland. The foreign policy was a result of the combined ideas of France and Britain.

In his work the second world war, Vinnie point out several opportunities where the allies could have stopped the war from coming. Preventing rearment was one point. Acting on the re-occupation of the Rhineland another.

The Anschuss was difficult because Britain was nursing their relationship with Italy, Il Duche saw the British actions as weak and decided to let Hitler have his way. Hitler in turn promised never to forget the favour.

The British made some bad calls during the 30ies. The '50 nations led by one' was a blunder in the Ethiopia crisis. The league of nations did not have actions behind their words.

I think that the main problem for most politicians on reading Hitler in the 30ies, was that they thought of him in democratic terms. And if Hitler had been in a democracy there is no way that he could have made the country as he did. Vinnie on the other hand was a loose cannon and ill fitted for politics in peace time. Best suited to be captain on the bridge during combat, he recognised the political system and resourcefulness of a war economy. Vinnie worked several posts during WW1 and knew the potential of minor changes. English summertime, running factories on several shifts etc. He determined early that the British industry would not be on war footing until late '41-'42.

Summing up (or yes I'm finished) Winston Spencer Churchill had a varied background. He knew the political system during both peace and war. Many politicians during the 30ies only knew 'party politics' (known as entertainment for those who has seen the British parliament in action) and the importance of economics and trade. They were not equipped to wrestle with the german mastermind who obeyd only his own rules. The French were pretty much in the same boat as the British (the French have the dubious honour of producing some of the finest politicians of the 30ies) but they had moore internal controversy and larger distance between the parties.

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'We march. The enemy is retreating in transport. We follow on foot.' Lt.Neil McCallum 5/7 Gordons 19th November 1942

Totally correct !

The IIIrd republic, which committed suicide as German army invaded France, was really unstable, because of political parties changing alliances very often, leading tothe fall of the government. No protracted an overtime coherent policy could be made.

Between 1876 and 1940 : no less than 101 coalition governments !

Back to initial post : France was criticaly crippled by WWI, of course, huge casualties, but also in the minds : war was a kind of apocalypse.

1.900.000 soldiers killed ( to figure out what this means, this is almost 4 times the number of US soldiers casualties of WWII, and we're talking about a 42.000.000 population country at the time of WWI), you can add 4.250.000 soldiers wounded and about 500.000 civilians killed.

So, war had to be avoided at all costs, including dealing wth the devil, and the fear of another war against Germany blinded them.

I think one of the problems is that we are looking back at that period with 20/20 historical vision. We know what ended up happening, which the politicians at the time did not know. How many leaders of Hitler's type had been seen before? With the knowledge of the Holocaust and the enormous cost of World War II we forget that in the 1930s all that could be seen from Germany was incredible successes. Many prominent people from Allied countries wrote glowing accounts of Nazi Germany during the 1930s. While Hitler's rhetoric was martial and racist this wasn't all that uncommon prior to World War II. Remember that until World War II most countries had Ministers of War, not Ministers of Defence. And up until he occupied the rump state of Czechoslovakia in March 1939 Hitler was merely reoccupying traditional German territory, and his moves were accepted by the vast majority of the newly incorporated territories in overwhelmingly positive plebiscites.

Hitler's attack on Poland could be justified by his reoccupation of the traditionally German Danzig. However, by that time he had also occupied the Czech lands and so by that time Hitler's expansionistic programme was obvious and it was clear he wanted all of Poland, not just the traditionally German areas.

In 1938 Hitler's expansionistic programme was not yet out in the open. Yes, he said a lot about his ideas for a new Drang nach Osten for lebensraum in Mein Kampf but he said a whole lot in that book that he didn't follow through on. Books by political leaders are usually heavy on rhetoric and usually their extreme statements do not become reality. Hitler wanted the Sudentland in Czechoslovakia and the Allies had long known that their giving this predominantly German territory to the Czechs had been an immoral act on their part. They also were all too familiar with war and the worst they could possibly imagine was another war with Germany. The previous posters have already well addressed this point. So, with Germany making a demand with some justification and their own economies and militaries not ready for a war with a well-rearmed Germany appeasement made sense.

So what do we say about Churchill? How was he so prescient? My own opinion is that Churchill was not only a good military man and student of history, he was also a ruthless and cynical politician who hated Germany. He was the perfect man for a Britian at war. However, as a peace time politician he was far less successful. In this sense he resembles Hitler a fair bit. Both were men who were consumed by military considerations and their politics followed military lines. If Britian had lost the war Churchill would be remembered today as a warmonger, something that Hitler himself claimed and recognized. Hitler and Churchill were sown from the same cloth.

It dose seem to come across as Hitler was being pushy and crafty at the same time. It's like watching a poker game, Churchill knew Hitler's deck and everyone else were far to busy with there own hand of cards and not focusing on what was really unfolding before them.

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Man of the Year 1942

Regards, Richard

It is interesting that Churchill was so full of hatred towards A. Hitler that he was ready to forget his own hate of communism. That is like turning your jacket around politically....

Also what is interesting is that the Germans sent people to tell about Hitler and his plans to the west ( the military coup 1938 plans) but 1. The anti-Hitler people expressed similar Big Germany hopes why they were considered as bad as Hitler 2. Chamberlain probably thought of making a huge political deed by making peace with Hitler in late 1938 and did not think he needed any German coup and simply ignored them.

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You may recall Hitler's major arming plan that he started in 1936 - which would almost bankrupt Germany by 1939 - where Goering wanted 20,000 aircraft (though he never got more than 4000 by 1939) - where Germany would import more than it would sell, where raw materials were ordered as if there was no tomorrow - where even metal streetlights were swallowed up and replaced with wooden ones so that more arms could be built - a plan that ran out of steam by mid 1939 and thus forcing Hitler to go to war 1 year earlier than he had planned in 1936.

Personally, I believe the British government and Neville Chamberlain may not have been as stupid as they pretended to be or as history indicates, when they sought the paper peace. Germany was rapidly going into account deficit because of Hitler’s planned build up. International Bankers all knew this. The fact that Hitler had to abandon his 1940 planned date for the war and begin in 1939 possibly shows that the world bankers had laid a trap for him and it is possible Neville Chamberlain hoped that if Hitler could be induced to remain at peace until 1940, that Germany would have financially collapsed before firing a shot.

This is just a theory - nothing more.

Hitler really had no choice but to go to war in 1939, since he had made it plain that he planned to repay the great debts he was creating by invading Russia and using it's farmlands, minerals, and oil to pay it all back. Of course Poland was in the way.

Welcome Seatco!

Anyway, personally on Hitler´s thoughts on the USSR and East I think that it was more than just paying debts. There was going to be slav slaves, subhumans would be killed, huge ranches for SS hierarchy to raise their families etc. This was his ideology and money was just means to be able to do it.

Not that much into international bankers vs Hitler but to me it seems the same as always: where there is a possibility to make money people invest. Hitler was trusted by German industrial men and bankers because he would keep communism away from Germany. He got a large funding since late 1920´s I think , and one must remember that he did not reveal his desire for war until after 1935 after which for instance Schahct wanted to get away from it all.

International bankers also later on profited from the factories in Germany making cars etc ( the US at least until 1941 ) etc so I´d think they were not all for ending the war or they would have stopped or at least tried to stop the production for Hitler´s war machine.

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Being part Native American I have experienced racism since childhood. It abated somewhat in the 70s and became more intense in the late 80s. For some silly reason I used to wonder too, how Germans could have missed seeing Hitler for what he was. But the recent invasion of Iraq by my own country (and 9-11) has forced me to reevaluate this old view about the Germans. When Hitler arose among the Germans something like him had not been seen in Europe for a very long time. And by something I mean of course a ruler. Most Europeans were focused on the murders of Stalin and so they saw Hitler as a kind of protection against communism. Now contrast that with the USA, my own nation. A ruler like Hitler is not something the West is ignorant about – cause Hitler was not all that long ago. Nor is the Arab terrorism threat anywhere as dangerous to the West as Stalin and communism seemed in the 1930s. No Arabs have recently killed 10 million people. But as you read about 1930s Europe, that was what was on German minds back then.

Then also consider the common racism of the 1930s in the Western controlled nations. It was a time where white men would speak of the “White man’s burden” which usually meant, white men must bring civilization to the darker races of the world. Or more to the point, white men must rule the dark races. In the USA lynching of Blacks was common in the South, and others of darker races were more or less ignored or treated like shadows along the wayside (this included Jews in America). Even those Americans who were not racist (if such a thing exists) maintained a steady quietness about it all – never standing up and putting their foot down to stop it. Essentially, just like the Germans with the Nazis, Americans either did not see all this racism or pretended not to. And my friend, there were no Nazi sub machineguns aimed at the heads of Americans in the 1930s. So who had the greater guilt? Who had the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Who had the Declaration of Independence that stated, ‘All men are created equal’?

This hits home for me because my strawberry blond and blue eyed mom was much this way even until the 1980s when she was gray headed. And her family was practically abolitionists during the American Civil War, with both of my white great-great grandfathers serving in the Union, along with all their many brothers, and one ancestor even marching with ‘War is Hell’ himself, General Sherman. As for Hitler my mother stated that she and most people thought Hitler was a funny joke! Can you imagine that? Just like the Germans, the Americans did not listen carefully to Hitler or take him too seriously. So how can any American blame the Germans? How? Even many of the Jews in Germany supported Hitler, because as they later said, ‘they thought Hitler only meant the Eastern Jews’ and most German Jews in the 30s didn’t like them either.

No I didn't mean Hitler didn't want to fulfill his threats against Jews and Slaves etc. I only meant that he had planned his great war for 1940, but his build up had created a huge account deficit for Germany which forced him to move the attack date up one year. I know the Brit Govt and banker part I mentioned was just a theory of my own.

I don't know if you have read Hitler's second book, but everyone should. He wrote it in 1928 and never published it. The manuscript was discovered in the repository of captured German records in Alexandria, Virginia, in 1958. An English translation is now available. In this 1928 book Hitler basically revealed his entire plan for future conquest - which is likely why he never published it. It is a MUST read for anyone who wants to understand the brain cell of Onkle Adie. Also a must read is 'Hitler's Jewish Soldiers' because there you will see in detail why Hitler MUST have known about what was happening to all the Jews, and also see what Hitler really thought about his own anti-Jewish propaganda. Basically Hitler in 41 ordered about 200,000 Mischlinge (part-Jew) soldiers (a group that had the highest rate of medals in the German Army) out of the army, to come home and spend the war digging ditches, building roads and mining. In other words, Hitler pulled about 2 Armies or one Army Group off the strategic map at a critical point in the war. into their place Hitler sent what he called true Aryans into the Soviet meat-grinder. But most of the part-Jews he sent home survived the war - even though most WANTED to return to the battle front.

Hitler´s ideas updated 1937:

Hossbach memorandum

Hossbach memorandum Berlin 1937

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Yes, I recall that and I see now more clearly Hitler's two obsessions: 'if he could live long enough'. He always worried that he would get cancer and die like his mother. He rushed things a lot because of that. And his other obsession: 'farming'. In his 1928 book he goes into that in depth - how Germany should not focus on being an industrial-trading power (even though Germany was very capable of that - just as today - and was in many sectors out in front of the rest of the world in Technology). His focus on farming was strange to say the least. Later when he was in power the German Farmers at first supported him, but later they at times would beat up and throw out of town the little Nazi bureaucrats that came to their communities to tell them how to do things. Also Hitler obviously had little idea what farming would involve in the heart of Russia - but the German troops who later traveled that vast wilderness, a land that had little or no communications and dirt and mud for roads - likely understood that farming there would be like stepping back 200 years in time. Hitler would have had to drive his farmers out there with whips.

In 1938 Hitler suffered from voice problems and was diagnosed of having a benign tumor in his throat which was removed and his voice returned. However Hitler made his first testament back then and surely this occasion must have had some effect on his decision to make "things right" sooner for Germany than he had planned.

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Also on the attack plans towards East the German Generals were "happy" attacking Poland but when it was told that Barbarossa was next several were against such an operation, especially Rundsted, Guderian that I recall. So attacking the USSR was pretty much Hitler´s idea, I´d say, even after the big victories of the early war.

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