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Old July 13th, 2007, 03:36 PM
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Question Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Anyone know the great bayonet battles in WWII ?, i mean the most hand to hand battle in WWII .
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Old July 13th, 2007, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Probably any fight in a city.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 04:05 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Many battles in Russia were hand-to-hand.

In NW Europe, 'Hackett's Hollow' at Arnhem comes to mind.....
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Old July 13th, 2007, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

I'd say that on the whole, the Pacific had any more hand to hand combat than any other theater. The Battle for Saipan comes to mind where the largest banzai charge of the war took place on 7 JULY.

In Normandy, Lt. Col. Cole led a battalion of paratroopers in a bayonet charge--an action for which he would later be awarded the Medal of Honor.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Hand to hand battles were prevalent in close quarters, Stalingrad is a good example.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

How about North Africa, is there any great bayonet or hand to hand fighting ?
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Old July 13th, 2007, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

In the ETO bayonets caused less than 1% of ground casualties. Even in the Pacific the casuality rate was equally low. The bayonet as a weapon was far more a psychological one than an effective one.
In close quarters the prefered weapons were generally seen as the submachinegun and grenade. Clearing buildings by late war, at least with the US, was based on the use of lots of explosives (grenades) and gratitious firepower. That is throw a grenade into the room to be cleared and then step in right after it detonates and spray the contents with a submachinegun. Use of bazookas and grenade launchers to fire through windows was a recommended tactic. Many units replaced the Mk II "Pinapple" grenade with a 60mm mortar round on their rifle grenade launchers to add more bang in urban fighting.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Quote:
In the ETO bayonets caused less than 1% of ground casualties
I would see why that would be. Bayonettes were great when you had one shot and nothing else and needed something to extend your lethal reach. In a modern battlefield (WWII is a modern war), why use an upclose and personal weapon when you can keep and kill your enemy at a distance, where it is much safer for you.

Bayonettes do look forboding when marching through broad avenues in the effort to impress the unarmed, servile locals.
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Old July 14th, 2007, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

My Grandfather used a spearbamboo he still managed to kill 20-30 allied troops in first day Battle of Soerabaya!!
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Old July 14th, 2007, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

What weapons were the other guys using, chewing gum?
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Old July 14th, 2007, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

More like bad language
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Old July 16th, 2007, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Caught in a suprise attack I can see some Dutch or Japanese soldiers rendered at a disadvantage by a skilled spear carrier. Using a bayonet on a rifle takes more than a little training, for anything other than riot control. Iroh did not give the year. Perhaps this was in the days of muskets or single shot rifles. Or the enemy were some sort of poorly trained conscripts or gendmere types who were not used to serious combat.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Or maybe they were just sleeping?
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Old July 16th, 2007, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
In the ETO bayonets caused less than 1% of ground casualties. Even in the Pacific the casuality rate was equally low. The bayonet as a weapon was far more a psychological one than an effective one.
Much like a last resort weapon and a way to go out fighting, but my understanding is that the spade was a weapon of choice in the Eastern Front.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
In the ETO bayonets caused less than 1% of ground casualties. Even in the Pacific the casuality rate was equally low. The bayonet as a weapon was far more a psychological one than an effective one.
In close quarters the prefered weapons were generally seen as the submachinegun and grenade. Clearing buildings by late war, at least with the US, was based on the use of lots of explosives (grenades) and gratitious firepower. That is throw a grenade into the room to be cleared and then step in right after it detonates and spray the contents with a submachinegun. Use of bazookas and grenade launchers to fire through windows was a recommended tactic. Many units replaced the Mk II "Pinapple" grenade with a 60mm mortar round on their rifle grenade launchers to add more bang in urban fighting.
At school, I had a teacher who was a Royal Marine Commando in WW2 and he told me that in North -West Europe at least, another good weapon for clearing a room was the British Sten gun. It was so cheaply made that the mere throwing of one into a room would generally cause it to discharge it's entire magazine until empty, in the meantime it would be leaping and jumping all over the place. He has seen Germans leap out of windows and hide up chimneys to avoid this !
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Old July 17th, 2007, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

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Originally Posted by PzJgr View Post
Much like a last resort weapon and a way to go out fighting, but my understanding is that the spade was a weapon of choice in the Eastern Front.
The entrenching tool sharpened along three edges was the preferred weapon of British Army night raiding patrols along the Western Front in the Great War. My Grandfather served in the Rifle Brigade from 1914 and told me that he had taken a German's head off with a hard back handed cut. He then went on to tell me that the spade then got caught in the German's pickelhaube chain chin strap whilst the head spewed blood all over his boots, and that whilst trying to free it he copped a rifle butt in the mouth from another German ! Another weapon he liked was a very heavy brass knuckle-duster which had a four inch blade folded within it on one side and a four inch steel spike on the other. He used to keep it on his desk and I always wanted it, but, along with his cap badge and belt, he had it put in his coffin when he died.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iroh View Post
My Grandfather used a spearbamboo he still managed to kill 20-30 allied troops in first day Battle of Soerabaya!!

Listen, amigo, if your grandfather managed to kill even 20 Allied troops with a bamboo spear in the Battle of Whatever, then the buggers must have been either asleep or drunk !
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Old July 18th, 2007, 05:08 AM
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Cool Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

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Originally Posted by nuvolari View Post
Listen, amigo, if your grandfather managed to kill even 20 Allied troops with a bamboo spear in the Battle of Whatever, then the buggers must have been either asleep or drunk !
Yes they are, my Grandfather ambush them in camp while sleep
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Old July 18th, 2007, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

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Originally Posted by Iroh View Post
Yes they are, my Grandfather ambush them in camp while sleep
""?????????
Guess we know where your pride is.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

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Originally Posted by White Flight View Post
""?????????
Guess we know where your pride is.
Im not sure that that is a fair analysis, afterall it is his grandfather that Iroh is talking about.
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Old July 19th, 2007, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Great Bayonet Battles in WWII

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Originally Posted by White Flight View Post
""?????????
Guess we know where your pride is.
Thats what I'd have done. Absoluely nothing in any of my 20+ years of military training about fighting fair. If they were stupid enough to sleep without a sentry... I made that mistake as a 2dLt and paid for it with only a bit of stolen equipment.

Then again perhaps the skill in this grandfather of Irohs was in slipping past some sentrys or guards.
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