Soldat: Reflections of a German Soldier, 1936-1949 By Siegfried Knappe, Ted Brusaw, Charles T. Brusaw

I highly recommend this one.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

By the way Jgr, you can never sneak an opinion through on here and you know it

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Yup, I do. But, better to get busted by you than by .

Cheers mate.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Haha, Stefan, I wouldn't even try!...

I'm sorry if the Ziklon bit looked like I was implying proper reenactors were buying it, I fully believe proper reenactors will actively shun this item. Nevertheless I am aware of people who would gladly buy it as their form of a sick joke.

All you have to do is close the hatch on your StuG and forge ahead

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funny reading this thread since it's inception and I asked a couple of German vet friends what would the interest be in re-enactors or re-enaction to display any unit of Ww 2 at present especially W-SS, Heer, LW and KM. they had no clue and in fact were a bit upset that anyone would even think of protraying "them" during the present age with no significance whatsoever. The war is over, why bring up old terrible wounds ?

Good point! Good point Indeed.

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"The perfect Aryan is as tall as Goebbels, as fit as Goering, as blond as Hitler, as handsome as Himmler and has a name such as Rosenberg."
"

PzJgr, what a difference one or two generations make - as we discuss family on two sides of the War. My Dad and some of his mates would have been fighting your grandfather. As I mentioned earlier in this thread the 12th SS and Meyer were amongst the Germans for whom he could not find tolerance or forgiveness. The hatred of Meyer is one of the few instances of his ever teaching one of his children to feel that way - of course I was brought up to despise everything the Nazis and Hitler stood for and did - but when I could not have named any other German officer, I always knew the name of Kurt Meyer.

Re the sources, there are pluses and minuse in anectodal sources. Sometimes they give us the true feeling of being there and they are eye witness accounts. What I find difficult is when it is a case of someone recounting what someone else told them. In World War I and through the 1990s there was a firm belief in the story of a Canadian soldier being crucified by the Germans on the side of a Barn. When a well made piece of art was displayed in the 1990s which recreated this scenario,
research through all sources apparently failed to find fact only recounts of one soldier telling another.

But again, we have strayed from Mr. Goldstein's original purpose in starting the thread. What we have still not seen is anyone who actually does re-enact as a member of the SS explaining to Mr. Goldstein why he would choose to do so.

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Regards, Michelle

Oliver Goldsmith, "I love everything that's old: old friends, old times, old manners, old books, old wines."

I agree Michelle. So far none. Especially the poster in question.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Michelle, scroll back a few pages and you will see my answer (as a former SS re-enactor).

Erich, interesting point. I think however that it misses one key element, it isn't about opening old wounds, re-enactment (as a tool of education) isn't aimed at veterans and people who were there but at the participants and the current generation, people who do not have any wounds to open.

ED: Incidentally, as an alternative slant on this, why do people make models of SS troops and vehicles? Surely computer games which allow one to play as the Germans and mow down wave after wave of Allied soldiers are equally reprehensible?

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

This has been asked of miniature wargamers also quite a few times. I have seen in a few forums where people have been asked why they game as Germans or Waffen SS.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

What was the answer?

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Well for some the point was made that they do not game them as commiting atrocities or crimes. It is more abstractand pure to them.There is no shooting of prisoners too.And that it is purely in a war or battle situation that they are used. Also no civilians involved. Now for the First person shooter type video games that may be totally different but usually in miniature gaming it isn't a one on one type of scenario. Depends on what scale you use too. Quite a few are from squad level on up. For example 1/285th-1/300th scale are of that type that are platoon on up.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

On the TMP there is quite a long thread on "Why the Germans?" for one.


[TMP] "Why the Germans?" Topic

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

So what you are saying is that (to them) because it is impersonal it is ok? I.e. because they are portraying a unit rather than individuals it is ok?

Similarly though, re-enactors don't portray atroceties etc very often (and when they do the repercussions are usually massive), most only portray 'combat soldiers' and so on.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

To some of them? Yes. I would suggest you check out the thread I linked to. I for one do not portray any Waffen SS units in my gaming. And you are right it is very much more impersonal. More so the a First Person Shooter and Reenacting. A lot of the wargames are more Strategic and Tactical based.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Which does of course raise the question of whether being impersonal changes it from an ethical point of view? I'm not sure it does, after all, pushing a button which kills someone is impersonal but morally is little different from stabbing them. The difference is simply in ones mind.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Stefan I think the vets in my post would take incredible offense if allowed to view the re-enactment due to personal reasons and those inflicted on them and those they fought. And yes I can see the typical no-wounds shown or felt, no-body really dies in the pursuance of the re-enactment although in many cases trying to protray real events. Guess we need to look and actually be thankful that for nearly all the younger set in these modern roles have never seen combat in the realist sense, it might take one then to reflect.

Erich, I definately understand your point, but surely it is their choice whether to view or not. As Mr Goldstein said, he wouldn't attend an event because it isn't his scene and presumably doesn't interest him. I remember hearing a veteran complain about the Holocaust exhibition in the IWM, his main complaint was that it brought up old wounds for no good reason. Surely however teaching younger generations about what went on is a reason itself, of course it brings back things for people who were there, but does that mean we should forget it or censor portrayal of it? I'm not sure it does.

Incidentally it is often interesting to see how many former soldiers end up re-enacting, guys who have seen combat in some of the grimmer modern conflicts. Interesting phenomanon, particularly seeing how they react when people re-enact the Gulf war or Operation Iraqi Liberation (they are out there).

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.