were there germans who lived in the united states went back to germany to fight the allies? is this true?

Simple answer is: Yes.

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Complex answer is: some did, some didn't...

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I've read of several accounts of German soldiers who were captured and later turned out to be either a US citizens or had been long term resident aliens.

The membership of the men in the Geman military does not necessarily mean that they voluntarily joined. I have read of accounts of young men who went back to Germany for personal reasons (deaths in the family and business) and were drafted while there.

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Best Regards,
JW

I remember that scene in SPR where one of the 'prisoners' was an American from Cleveland or something. I'm sure its based on fact, though I can't imagine there being very many American-Germans who returned to the Fatherland. I'm sure there is some sort of stat on it out there.

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Yes, there were several shades of gray here. Some didn't return at all and stayed to do their service in their newfound country, others returned on purpose to join the German armed forces, others were simply caught in the net, anything did happen.

Remember some extreme cases like those spies who landed fom a sub and were soon aprehended (the story was told here recently), those who were more or less willingly 'volunteered' on that Skorzeny deception plan in the Bulge. Like I say, there were several variants.

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so when america declared war on germany did the F.B.I launch some kind of witchunt to germans who became u.s. citizens? chances that they may provide intelligence to the enemy. what was the situation back then?

off topic question you say that history channel is not accurate giving information about world war 2 what about bbc do they have accurate information? coz i got some copies of bbc and some of them are in black and white.

What's your problem with films being B/W? Are they less accurate for that?

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This has been said over and over LOL. Most of the stuff you see on THC is for entertainment. THC does not produce the programs themselves. They are shown to make a profit for the corporation. The inaccuracies in a lot of them are quite well know. And just because its a "Documentary" does not make the info presented as true or accurate.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

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"so when america declared war on germany did the F.B.I launch some kind of witchunt (sic) to germans who became u.s. citizens? chances that they may provide intelligence to the enemy. what was the situation back then?"

Since America is a nation of immigrants (unless you are Amerindian) we have always had laws about "enemy aliens" since John Adams at least with the Alien Enemy Act of 1798.

1918: Codification of Alien Enemy Act of 1798, 50 USC 21-24, permitting apprehension and internment of aliens of "enemy ancestry" by US government upon declaration of war or threat of invasion. The President is given blanket authority as to "enemy alien" treatment. Civil liberties may be completely ignored because enemy aliens (suspected or real) have no protection under this law.

1939-1941: Various governmental bodies, such as the FBI, special intelligence agencies of the Justice Department, the Office of Naval Intelligence, and the Army's Military Intelligence Division compile lists of dangerous "enemy aliens" and citizens, including the FBI's Custodial Detention Index (the "CDI").

1940: The (every ten year) census includes specific listings and location of persons based on their ethnicity, which certainly assisted the US Government in later identification of "suspect" individuals of "enemy ancestry."

1940: Alien Registration Act of 1940 passes requiring all (non-American born) male aliens 14 years and older to register with the US government.

Dec. 7, 1941: Japan bombs Pearl Harbor. Pursuant to the Alien Enemy Act of 1798, Roosevelt issued identical Presidential Proclamations 2525, 2526 and 2527 branding German, Italian and Japanese nationals as enemy aliens, authorizing internment and travel and property ownership (guns, cameras, radios) restrictions. A blanket presidential warrant authorized U.S. Attorney General Francis Biddle to have the FBI arrest a large number of "dangerous enemy aliens" based on the CDI. Hundreds of German aliens were arrested by the end of the day. Not a "witch-hunt" exactly, a precaution which was later proven incorrect. But nobody knew that at the time, and the German Amerian Bund was still an outspoken group, and who knew who belonged to the stinker. Would they admit it if asked?

Dec. 11, 1941: US declares war on Germany and Italy in response to their declaration of war on the USA. During WW2, our government had to do its utmost to ensure domestic security against dangerous elements in its midst. But perhaps it should have exercised greater vigilance to protect the liberties of those most vulnerable because of their ethnic ties to enemy nations. Some were dangerous enemy aliens to be sure, but many more were assumed guilty and never able to prove their innocence. Admittedly, US wartime governmental actions are difficult to assess decades later, even with the lens of hindsight.

Jan. 1942: Pursuant to Presidential Proclamation 2525-2527 and 2537 (issued Jan.14, 1942), the Attorney General issues regulations requiring application for and issuance of certificates of identification to all "enemy aliens" aged 14 and older and outlining restrictions on their movement and property ownership rights. Approximately one million enemy aliens re-register, including 300,000 German-born aliens, which was the 2nd largest immigrant group at that time. The largest single group were from Great Britain, and we were allied not at war with them.

All applications are forwarded to the Department of Justice's Alien Registration Division and the FBI. Any change of address, employment or name must be reported to the FBI. Enemy aliens may not enter federally designated restricted areas. If enemy aliens violate these or other applicable regulations, they are subject to "arrest, detention and internment for the duration of the war."

Jan.- Feb. 1942: In cooperation with the military, the DOJ (Department of Justice) establishes numerous small prohibited zones strictly forbidden to all enemy aliens. DOJ also establishes extensive "restricted areas" in which enemy aliens are subject to stringent curfew and travel restrictions, particularly on the East and West Coasts and areas surrounding the Great Lakes.


Feb. 19, 1942: Roosevelt signs Executive Order 9066 authorizing the Secretary of War to define military areas in which "the right of any person to enter, remain in or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions" are deemed necessary or desirable. This order applies to all "enemy" nationalities.

March 11, 1942: Executive Order 9095 creates the Office of the Alien Property Custodian which gives the Custodian discretionary, plenary authority over all alien property interests. Many internee assets were frozen, creating immediate financial catastrophe for affected families.


Feb.-April 1942: Congress ratifies Executive Order 9066 authorizing the imposition of sanctions for violations of the order. Extensive military zones established on the east and west coasts, significantly expanding upon those originally created by DOJ, and in certain areas around the Great Lakes. Gen. John DeWitt issues a series of Public Proclamations creating Western Defense Command military areas and outlining curfews, travel restrictions and exclusion provisions, among other things, applicable to German, Japanese and Italian aliens, as well as Japanese American citizens. By military order, thousands of German-American, Japanese-American and Italian-American aliens required leave military areas in the continental USA.

1942 US Government initiated exchanges of approximately 2,000 German internees for Americans held in Germany. Six exchange voyages carried many families to Germany, including American-born children and US citizen spouses of German alien internees. Upon arrival in war-ravaged Germany, exchangees were unexpected and unwanted by their families. Many are suspected of being spies. Families with young children, some even born during the trip to Germany, had to make their own way to family homes through hazardous countryside. Some men were beaten and arrested by the Gestapo as spies and put in camps, leaving their families destitute again.

1942 – 1945 Thousands of German aliens and German Americans are arrested, interned, excluded, paroled, and exchanged with Germany. Few know why they are interned or for how long. Some are granted re-hearings, pursuant to which an even smaller number are released. Those released were generally subject to parole restrictions. Internees are pressured to repatriate. There were six exchanges with Nazi Germany, primarily of civilians. One trip of the SS Gripsholm in January 1945 involves 1,000 exchangees for American POWs.

Was it a "witch hunt" to interview and then inter a few German and Italians in America? Since so few were actually interred out of the total number of registered German or Italian ancestry; I think not.

The Germans, the Italians, and other Axis member nation immigrants were certainly examined and interviewed but not really "hunted down". To think or say otherwise is silly, and overlooking the "war" and its influence at the time.

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Happy Trails,
Clint.

Just to add some sophistry to this interesting post...


I thought the Amerindians were immigrants too. They didn't pass through Ellis Island, probably through some Immigration post in Anchorage, AK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brndirt1 Was it a "witch hunt" to interview and then inter a few German and Italians in America?

Wow, this legislation was rather more severe than I thought it was!

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the Amerindians being immigrants as well is. Since they were here before the law was passed by the US government, they were not included of course. This is just for those who may not be familiar with our (USA) position as per the Native Americans.

They are for the most part considered sovereign nations in their own right, and not affected by a few of our Federal statutes and such. They were not even included in our census figures for years and years unless they resided off the reservations. Which was weird in a way and makes our population figures sort of odd to figure out in some years. I don't remember exactly when that position was altered.

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Happy Trails,
Clint.

Hello tiger32,


Ahmmm... The US declared war on Germany?

Regards
Kruska

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The world is grey - not black and white

LOL I can't believe we all MISSED that!! LOL

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Ouch!

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