Hey Everybody,

This may be a silly question but I am going to ask it anyway. Why wasn't General Heinz Guderian ever awarded rank of Field Marshal?

Well, I should say why do you think this is so?

Was it because he wasn't as popular with Hitler as the others were?

He was an architect in blitzkreig tactics and a highly skilled commander of his Panzer armies.


I think he deserved the rank of Field Marshal..

What do you think?



Suzie

He disobeyed orders to stop his Panzer, during his 1940 drive into France.
Some in the High Command, were concerned he was outrunning his supply,
and would be cut off. This was WW1 thinking, and Guderian was fighting
WW2. He didn't want to lose the opportunity, to cut off Allied forces,
that were in Belgium, or give the Allies time to regroup. Obviously Guderian
was right. But Hitler wanted blind Obedience and Guderian was his own man.
This is at least one reason. Things didn't go as well on the Eastern Front,
Hitler blamed everybody, including Guderian, for this.

***************question******************
Why wasn't General Heinz Guderian ever awarded rank of Field Marshal?

"Recalled to service as inspector general of armoured troops in February 1943, Guderian had the right of direct access to Hitler, and did his best to develop and train the panzer arm but he was unable to prevent serious mishandling of armoured forces. He declined to support the July 1944 bomb plot, arguing that his honour as an officer forbade it. His honour did not prevent him issuing an order that all soldiers should regard themselves as Nazis when he was subsequently appointed CGS. No flunky, Guderian argued frequently with Hitler and in March 1945, after yet another quarrel, he was sent on leave, to surrender to the Americans on 10 May.

Guderian was not simply a notable theorist and organizer but a hard-driving armoured commander of rare talent: the Meuse crossing, a remarkable achievement, owed much to him. Yet he was headstrong and irascible, admired rather than liked, and, like so many German officers of the time, torn between the professional excitement of the wars Hitler declared and the cost to his honour and his country of serving him."

This explains pretty much that. Hitler had to use him ´cos he was absolutely the highest skilled general around. Guderian had the guts to argue with Hitler and probably that was reason he never got ranked as Field Marshall

And yes, he should have been awarded the Field Marshall rank. He is absolutely my favourite general in the whole war. He had the skill, he had the courage and he had the ultimate vision on how panzer armies should be used, he is the creator of modern tank warfare. The highest skilled general in the whole war, no doubt about it in my opinion.

Agreed. However after giving Paulus in early 1943 the title, who surrendered and did not commit suicide, Hitler promised not to give the title to anybody anymore. Not totally true as he did promote Ferdinand Schörner Field marshall in April 1945. But the Paulus case might explain partly why Guderian did not get promotion, and maybe was not enough active in the political front?

__________________

Yes I agree. I think Hitler gave partially the rank of Field Marshall to Paulus because he tried to encourage Paulus to fight to the end. Hitler also expected Paulus to commit a suicide and was really shocked when Paulus surrendered. Hitler did indeed make a decision not to award any Field Marshall ranks to anybody after the fall of the 6th army in Stalingrad. However, taking into account Hitler's nature and way of thinking, nothing was really certain and unexpected from him.

Few days after Paulus,the following became Fieldmarshall :Busch,von Kleist ,von Weichs and von Richthoven .
Later :Model,Schoerner and at last von Greim .
About Guderian:he was fired in december 1941 at the asking of von Kluge .After Stalingrad he became inspector general of the Panzers (function not suitable for promotion to fieldmarshall ) and after 20 july army chief of staf (also not suitable for becominh fieldmarshall )

Well, if you all want to look on this site, both Skipper and Julio posted my three original Snapshots of Guderian here. One was when he was a Generalleutnant and was visiting one of his Divisional HQs in the field soemwhere in Russia, and the other two were as him as Inspector General of Armored Troops. Also, if you find these pics here? look for a young tall officer who is one of Guderians Aides. That man had been in the 2nd Kompanie of Panzer Regiment 1, and though his name isn't mentioned in any books that I know of? I do know who he is thanks to owning one of that Kompanies Rosters as kept by that Kompanies Spiess ;-))

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I have seen a picture of Guderian (but of course forgot where ) ,I think it was on october 1944,on the creation of the Volkssturm ,and he had the look of an old (56 ,younger than I am )and sick man :after 1941 he had some heart attacks .

Found it Google on 'Guderian and the Volkssturm ':left to a sinister personage

Wow, at 56 he was already having heart attacks. Appearently he had quite a temper, maybe that combined with the stress and frustration with high command.



LJad - is this the picture you were refering to?

File:Bundesarchiv Bild 146-1987-128-10, Rede Heinrich Himmler vor Volkssturm.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

Guderian is on the left... your right, for a quick second there I thought that was Von Rundstedt.

yes ,this is the picture ;there is a resemblance with von Rundstedt,who was 13 years older .If you will look at a picture of Guderian from 1940,you will see that he had aged enormously

I have a von Rundstedt original pic taken by the officer Photographer of the Army Group "A"'s General Staff. I don't see any resemblance betwixt the two cept for their uniforms ;-))

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Ok smarty pants... I said for a quick second they look alike... and Just that picture. Guderian looks nothing like von Rudstedt.. but in that picture for a QUICK second, he did. hehe


<- Rundstedt

Anyway, we have completely drifted off topic...

BTW, Did Guderian lose his trust in Hitler? basically what i'm trying to say is did Guderian become disingaged and wanted to see Hitler Removed? I know he wasn't involded in any plot to kill Hitler, but did he have the same beliefs as the conspirators did regarding Hitler?


Like Rommel for example.. after his defeat in Africa he lost his trust in Hitler and before his death agreed that Hitler needed to be removed from power.


I am taking a quite a bit of interest in learning more on Guderian... so I'll take anything you throw at me


Suzie.

I think the best you can do is to obtain a copy of Panzerleader,(written in tempore non suspecto );the impressinon I have it was impossible for him to condemn Stauffenberg and others in 1952,and that,while he was critical of Hitler,never he would have joined the consirators . Sadly,I have no time to cite enough relevant passages from Panzerleader .

i think guederian was a better commander at corps level rather than field marshall.
also hes a panzer tactician, if he were a field marshall he would be commanding infantry and panzer but mostly infantry which wouldnt suit his "needs".
look at rommel in north africa, he was good at commanding 2 divions but once he had an army he didnt know how to handle it properly.

__________________
News today, a man has fallen into a chocolate vat in the arnotts factory

In other news arnotts have anounced that there will be 50% more tim in your tim tams.
(p.s. only aussies will get this joke)

On March 25, 1945, after Guderian "flatly contradicts Hitler to his face," Hitler clears the briefing room and in the presence of Keitel alone, tells Guderian that he must take immediate sick leave and report back in six weeks.

Guderian answered:

" If I can find a place to stay that isn´t taken by the enemy during the next weekend!"

-----

No wonder he did not get promotion....

__________________

Hi Suzie, heh heh, he does look like the meanest B_____d in the woods though ;-))

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

PS, notice in pic one that he's not wearing his Honorary Regimental Chefs Collartabs-but reg rank tabs? ;-)) Also, his visor is minus the "cords".

The pic 'Neath this one the one w/ Himmler-shows him wearing his Chefs Collartabs ;-)) The one pic I have of von Rundstedt shows him wearing the Chefs tabs.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

That's just pure "nazi" gold. I bet he played with matches and ran with sissors as a young lad as well.

__________________
"Add a step forward to it." A Spartan mother to her son when he complained his sword was too short.

"Murum aries attigit" The Ram has touched the wall.

Wow, Guderian certainly had some Kahuna's !! Jeesh

People were shot for saying nicer things!

Well that explain's why Guderian never got promoted... but at least he kept his dignity... and his life!

Suzie

Suzie, I take that back about not seeing a resemblance betwixt Guderian and von Rundstedt. However, its cheating using a pic of him when he was slightly younger ;-)) The mustache, is what does the trick for me ;-))

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

hehe, see... I told you just a quick second.

I admit it, I cheated.. I should have known.. I am dealing with the expert.

well, at least we had some fun with it.

I'd be careful with that, it's still a topic "open" for discussion that is still being debated heavily. The only surefire thing known about Rommel and the assassination attempt is that he was approached about it, whether he had a hand in it is controversial. Some revisionists from both sides of the argument have taken it to the extremes of course. Most recently a "shady" Texas organization had an event in England where they called him a Nazi Sympathizer who loved Hitler, news outlets that ran with it got flooded with letters from veterans who fought with and against Rommel arguing the opposite, most were censored though.

Guderian lost Hitler's favor in December 1941 when he pulled out his panzer group in the belief that its position was untenable, in contradiction to Hitler's "stand fast" order. In the end, blind luck and Russian incompetence averted disaster but Hitler felt vindicated. The debacle at Stalingrad was a nasty shock to Hilter's self-confidence; in the aftermath of the disaster he recalled Guderian and made him the inspector of the panzer troops. But Hitler never gave him a field command again.

True, you got a point.. it hasn't been proven. But there is a lot more on this topic that needs to be addressed.

but thats for another thread..