Hello Guys,

The below two pics is from a book entitled “ D-Day,
From the normandy Beaches to the liberation of France
“ By Tiger Publications. It’s not written by an author
as I think it’s some educational book for those
interested in history.

My question is that I believe that the heer soldats
squatting down in the first pic and the POW heer
soldat in the second pic are of asiatic/chinese origin.

Has any one seen these pics before?? If yes, could you
pls give me a description of the pics?? Eg. Date??
Place?? Any vague or detailed information is greatly
appreciated.

One more thing, I believe that the heer soldats
squatting down in the 1st pic are the three much
debated “ Korean “ soldiers captured by the US troops
during D-Day. I recalled Ambrose’s ( spelling ?? )
book stating that. Any further info is appreciated
too.

As the size of the pictures is quite large to send out
by e-mail, pls visit the following webpage I created
to view the pics :
http://alvinlee_81.homestead.com/ExtraStuff.html

I also look forward if anyone could lead me to a
website or show me pics of Asiatic soldiers.

Thanks

* Alvin *
Alvin’s Waffen SS Homepage
SS Freiwilligen Legion Norwegen
http://alvinlee_81.homestead.com/home.html


[This message has been edited by PanzerMan (edited 03 January 2001).]

PanzerMan-
I know for a FACT that I've seen a picture of an Asiatic wehrmacht soldier right after the Germans surrendered. I remember a caption even mentioning how rare this was, but unfortunately I cannot remember the book's title. I saw it on one of those occasional browsing visits to Borders Books. Sorry.

I clicked on the link to see the photos, but they didnt load up. Can you repost the link?

They worked for me, but just to be sure I'll post them here. I hope you don't mind Alvin, I'll take then right down if you object.

Dear Otto: thanks for posting them. These guys have to be Russians who are "relatives" (I cant think of the word I want to use) of Ghengis Kahn, and his legions. These look more like Malmukes (spelling) and in Georgia-U.S.S.R. is where I think these peoples had setteled. They are born of many different tribes, including chinese.

Hope this helps.

These troops were indeed originally captured by the Germans on the Eastern Front. Generally regarded as low-grade and unreliable, most were posted to the Atlantic Wall where they fell into Allied hands during the D-Day operations.

Chris Ray

In the book (D-Day From the Normandy Beaches to the Liberation of France) the caption is:

Captured Hilfswilliger ("Hiwis") auxilleries. Most were Soviet PoWs who, promised better treatment, volunteered for non-combatnant duty with German forces. Some were forced into combat.

They don't even have uniform patches on so it would be extremly hard to say what country ther were from and when it was taken.

[ 29 July 2001: Message edited by: Madcap7 ]

__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
Homer Simpson

They aren't Mamelukes. The Mamelukes were a Middle Eastern people that originated in Egypt and North Africa not long after the Crusades (11-1200's). They were eventually assimilated into the following Muslim Caliphates (Fatimids, Berbers, Egyptians, Libyans, etc.).

To me they look definately Asia. Possibly Russian. I notice a single Caucasian soldier in each photograph. In the first one, top row, middle. In the second, to the far right. These soldiers might have come from the Russian Far East, maybe Vladivostok, Chita or Irkutsk.

__________________
"As long as the Arabs continue to fight amongst themselves, forever will they be a weak and arrogant people."
-T.E. Lawrence

Abd al Aziz: Thanks for correcting me, I couldnt think of the correct name of what people they might have been, and I SHOULD have known they were NOT mamelukes--my bad error. I was thinking they could have been Mongolians, but if they were, these pictured sure were poor specimins for Mongolians.

Ive been so centered on only reading about ww1 and ww2, that I have neglected all of my other favorite times to study.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Hi all,

These pictures made me think at an episode I once read (unfortunately I can't remember where). It was about some Corean soldiers in German Uniform, among the first Third Reich Soldiers that were captured right after D-Day. These Coreans were first captured by the Russians in the Far East years before. Then, when Barbarossa begun, they passed in German hands (I do not remember if they were captured while in Russian uniform, fighting for the red Army, or they were freed by the Germans while still in Russian captivity) and joined their Army. They finally ended their "adventure" in Allied hands in Normandy.

Could it be that those men in the pictures are those Coreans?

Regards

FB

Hi all, thanks for continuing the thread again since I last posted this topic.

I think the story for the Korean soldats was that they were they were Captured OR drafted into the Japanese army at first and got captured by the Russians. The Russians in turn conscripted them in the Russian army with the Red army uniforms and they got captured by the German army who again gave them Wehrmacht tunics....

What a mess...any comments?

* Alvin *

__________________
@@ OstBattalion'43 @@
http://www.geocities.com/alvinlee_81/index.html
@@SYONAN REFLECTIONS-JAPANESE ARMY@@
http://www.geocities.com/alvinlee_81/Syonan.html

"They're tank busters sir, P-51s"
"Angels on our shoulders" Capt.Miller, Saving Private Ryan 1998

G'day

The last picture taken with the Sikh's is I think on the Dutch coast. A few years ago there was a documentory these soldiers. They were from India and were fighting the British in India.They thought that their enemy's enemy must be their friend and how dissapointed they must have been. They came to Germany to form a unit all Sikh. The Germans trained them and put them on duty first on the Dutch coast and later on in France. The armbadge shows a tiger and text(don't know what anymore). The Indians had relations in Holland with local girls which the locals and the germans didn't like hence the move to France.

Greetings Popski <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer?Ja!Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
(Mony Python killing joke)

__________________
Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Monty Python's Killing Joke

G'day

The last picture taken with the Sikh's is I think on the Dutch coast. A few years ago there was a documentory these soldiers. They were from India and were fighting the British in India.They thought that their enemy's enemy must be their friend and how dissapointed they must have been. They came to Germany to form a unit all Sikh. The Germans trained them and put them on duty first on the Dutch coast and later on in France. The armbadge shows a tiger and text(don't know what anymore). The Indians had relations in Holland with local girls which the locals and the germans didn't like hence the move to France.

Greetings Popski <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer?Ja!Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
(Mony Python killing joke)

__________________
Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Monty Python's Killing Joke

G'day

I was wondering where I saw the Sikh's and Eureka www.feldgrau.com in the foreign section. A photo of Rommel inspecting the regiment "Freies Indiën"

Lovely when a plan comes together
Popski

__________________
Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Monty Python's Killing Joke

Guys :

Here is a little more info for you to ponder.

The men are Turkmenes. Made up of Turkmenen, Karapalks, Kazaks, Khirgiz, Tadschiks and Usbeks. At the end of 43 16 abteilungs were activated which was about 16,000 men. # 450,452,781,783,784,785,786,787,788,789, and five others.
These men were of mongoloid type generally and their language being turco-mongol. Religion was muslim. The Germans were cadres to the unit.

E

Speaking of Orientals in Wehrmacht Uniforms. Currently on ebay is a photo im trying to get just to have it posted on this site. It clearly shows 3-4 orientals in Wehrmacht uniform, with a German Sergeant. They appear to be POWs. I will let you know if im successful.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

G'day

Alvin posted a new photo on his website mentioned in his first panzerman message but is not shown here above (yet).The two photo''s shown above I wouldn't know but Erich's story's make's sense.

Popski

__________________
Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Monty Python's Killing Joke

Hmmm..interesting info some of you guys have there.

I know that it is rather (very) difficult to establish solid origin of these asiatic soldats. they look Chinese but could be from Russian blood etc...u know the rest =-p

Note to Carl: Can you please show me the URL link to the asiatic picture on Ebay.

Also if anyone have any more info on them " Korean " soldiers, any personal insignia, documents, photos of asiatic soldiers, please let me know.

Thanks to all

* Alvin *

__________________
@@ OstBattalion'43 @@
http://www.geocities.com/alvinlee_81/index.html
@@SYONAN REFLECTIONS-JAPANESE ARMY@@
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"They're tank busters sir, P-51s"
"Angels on our shoulders" Capt.Miller, Saving Private Ryan 1998

Dear Alvin, I didnt write it down so I will see if I can find it. Also, my email site normally should have the bid info, but it messed up and somehow deleted many of my messages including the ones you get that tell you what you bid on.

Also, I would try to find it in the My ebay section, but I have yet to ever see mine work. Ive notified ebay several times about that, but they never seem to listen.

Anyway, I will let you know if I find the url to it--Carl.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I've not done any research, but I do know for a fact that certain nations such as Portugal and France held Indian ports such as Goa and Pondicherry or Bangalore under their respective colonial suzerainty. Although the former pair of outposts were Free French during the war, one might begin to conclude that a small number of Indian troops emerged to support the Vichy government, and were therefore assimilated into Waffen SS or other Heer units. This was true especially with the French, where crack units of North African origin served with the colonial divisions in Tunisia and Algeria. It might be that several Vichy troops also appeared in Europe from IndoChina, especially as few served with the Japanese - at least to my limited knowledge. The Germans had some North African Waffen SS units serving with Rommel in the Deutsch Afrika Korps. Few proved worth their salt, and some were indeed disloyal.

I'm also going to have to agree with common conjecture - they were likely Red Army soldiers as well, from Vladivostok, Irkutsk, or the Russian Far East. After moving with Zhukov's Siberian units to the German front, they were likely captured and fought on as Heer units posted to the Atlantic Wall.

AH..My first major disagreement with you.

There were Waffen SS units in Africa, but they were NOT part of the Afrika Korps. Rommel highly disliked the Waffen SS, and would NOT allow any to be placed under his command.

These Waffen SS units acted independantly, from the D.A.K. In no D.A.K. Orbat, is there a single Waffen SS unit listed as having served with any D.A.K. unit. Mainly their duties were police duties, traffic control etc, but not much in the way of combat. I know of this also, because of things said by Oberleutnant Heinz Heuer, who had been in Afrika, and was a Feldgendarmerie. He is also the only Feldgendarmerie to be a recipient of the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross. He became an RKT, because of his actions in the fighting in the last days of Berlin.

Now I DO agree in that there were North African men who had formed German units. These men were under the command of German Officers and NCO's. The Germans were called a cadre. Im not trying to disrespect any North African who did serve with the Wehrmacht, but they were not known as being the best of recruits for the Wehrmacht. I am sure some did serve with distinction, but have never heard of an individual mentioned. Of course, that could have been prejudicedly done.

You are also right about Russians manning parts of the Westwall defences. I am very close friends with a man who is a DKG recipient and who was part of U 181s crew. Toward the later part of 1944, he had been transferred and was put in charge of a platoon of Russian volunteers, who manned a section of the Westwall. He served there untill they were finally forced to abandon their positions at some point during or after the Battle of the Bulge.

I need to ask as I have never heard of any crack North African units, can you please elaborate what the designations for these units were? exactly where did they serve? when? and who were their commanding officers?

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.