Which general or commander in the war do u think made the worst move and had the most significant effect on the outcome of the war? Also what was the bad mave that they made?

Montgomery: Operation Market Garden. Need I say more. As usual, comes up with ambitous plans but does not have the proper attitude to implement. Too conservative in his moves and doesn't react with the speed needed. Outcome; had no affect on the war effort other than a great loss to the airborne corps.

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"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."

I still think Hitler's plan to move into Russia was a disastrous mistake. Had he not done that he might have been able to take Europe first then focus on other goals.

Yeah, Montgomery really did blow it. Then again, many of the Generals who were fighting in Greece and Turkey were also really bad.

I'm not really sure what Hitler was thinking when he attcked Russia and Poland. He could have used their help until later in the war at least, then attcked when he was closer to vicctory. I think he attacked these "aliies" to an extent way to early.

I really believe Hitler could have defeated the Soviet Union had he not adhered to the untermenschen philosophy.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

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"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."

I second that PzJgr.

I think MacArthur made a pretty big mistake allowing his airforce be destroyed on the ground in the first day or two of combat. He must have heard about Pearl Harbor before the attacks on the Philippines! I'm sure he was smart enough to realise that if the Japanses attacked Pearl Harbor only common sense says that the Philippines would be next in coming on their list of targets! So even a day after Pearl Harbor he still had all his aircraft grouped together all in the open! What a waste!

I wonder if MacArthur didn't send out his B-17's because he didn't know where to send them. He couldn't just send them out as soon as Pearl Harbor was attacked because then they would just be low on gas. I suppose it would have been a wiser decision then letting them all get blown away though.

I agree with you too PzJgr, and then I think that Stalingrad was the next BECAUSE GFM Friedrich Paulus did not disobey Hitlers orders by trying to save 6th Army. They lost just as POWs about 600,000 men-not including deaths, wounded, missing etc. That is a heck of a lot in my opinion.

What do you mean, "not counting death, wounded or injured"? Did they just dissapear?

Nope, these were other casualties. The battle lasted for what? several months. This battle was one of attrition and the Germans lost. I heard or read that the entire German losses for Stalingrad alone, was to the tune of 1 million ++++. These figures do include the POWs, MIAs and KIAs.

The 600,000 were the ones who surrendered in Der Hexen Kessel at the end of the battle. Out of the 600,000, only 5-6,000 returned to Germany. This doesnt mean that the rest all died in captivity-tho hundreds of thousands did, it just means that only that number went back to Germany. A good friend of mines father, was captured at the end of Stalingrad, and was not released by the Russians until 1955. His only "crime" was: that he was a Sanitator in a Pioneer unit (Medic in an Engineering unit)

Hope I answered you decently

Yea I got it Evans, thanks

i agree by your statement.

well put.

and and

My vote goes to.........
the german highcommand. In russia they wasted to much time thinking wether or not they were gonna attack moskou. When the decided to attack weeks were lost. The wether turned horrible and the Russians had put up their defences properly. If this hadn't happened, the germans would have been able to move further into russia and isolate leningrad completly. This way the might had decreased their frontline so they could have concentrated their troops and the Russian troops would have had trouble to use their main weapon. Their resources of troops

I believe the blame for that fiasco would go to der fuhrer himself. He was the one who order Guderian's panzer forces south to assist in taking Minsk. He ended up getting in the way. It was a delay of 6 wks I believe. The high command does have only itself to blame for not standing up to Hitler.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Good points, and this is embarassing for me to admit but, it seems like The Leningrad Front was The Forgotten Front. Whats embarassing about it is that a very good friend of mine served on the Leningrad front as a member of the Waffen SS and is a KC Recipient. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I wouldn't take it too hard Carl. Nothing much happened there until the big retreat. And it happened at Narva.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

You're absolutely wright PZJGR. That's exactualy what i'm trying to say. And it's also the point made in my topic (you already answered) about hitler.

Just do me a favor and do not tell my friend Remy, about it.

I'll never forget this one story he told me. He had a bottle of vodka, and took a weeks worth of his suger ration and mixed them. He then proceeded to get "wasted". Well his Platoon Sgt. alerted him to his watch duty, Remy acknowledged and soon as his NCO left the area-he passed out. He wound up sleeping through two of his watches and the NCO found out about that and took him immediately to their CO for Courts Marshall.

Remy was given a choice of Courts Marshall (and drummed out of the Waffen SS) or take punishment duty and redeem himself, he chose to redeem himself and wound up becoming a Knights Cross Recipient.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Hitler's move to neeedlessly declare war on America. Well done MeIN dUMKOPF...

I would go with Monty's Operation Market Garden: a waste of time, men, equipment, recources, etc. Instead of launching Market Garden they could have been advancing in France and into Germany. This could have saved even more lives on the Eastern Front if the Westen allies could have reached Berlin sooner.

However, if Hitler is considered a general then I would say his decision to split Army Group South into two parts and try to conquer the Caucuses at the same time as Stalingrad.