Reading 'Grenadiers' by Kurt Meyer and he constantly writes abbreviations for what I think are the regiments or battalions of the LSSAH. For example: II./LSSAH (mot.), but he also uses 2./LSSAH (mot.), and so on up for 15./LSSAH, etc.

Now I believe the Roman numerals are referring to the regiments and the regular numbers are referring to individual kompanies but Im not sure. Of course the '(mot.)' means motorized but Im not sure about the other ones.

Thanks

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'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
- Kurt Meyer, after his loyal comrade Heinz Schrott was killed by perfidious French partisans while wounded in a street.

Dear Gibson:

II/LSSAH (Mot) means 2nd battalion Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler Pz Dic (1st SS Pz Div)

(Mot) is motorized.

Another name for the 1st Div is LAH.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Thanks for reply Carl, I came upon this question again when reading The Last Knight of Flanders (Remy's book), and am still not entirely sure about your reply.

An example in the Last Knight is 14./SS-Regiment "Der Fuhrer." As well as various others with high numbers.

How can there be 14 battalions in a single regiment? Or was there funny numbering as there have been in various instances with Germany in WWII. I assumed again when not using Roman Numerals it was a Kompanie designation, but if it does end up being a 14th battalion, anyone who knows please explain the circumstances of the numbering system.

It would make sense if they went 1 (zug)/2 (kompanie)/II (abteilung/IV (regiment)/8 (division) for example, but Im not sure how they get abbreviated.

Thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

__________________
'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
- Kurt Meyer, after his loyal comrade Heinz Schrott was killed by perfidious French partisans while wounded in a street.

Oh, and another one to further my question (which im positive is referring to a kompanie):

6.(Pz.Jag)/Langemarck... In this instance they do the same thing, only referring to a tank hunting kompanie of a sturmbrigade. Im really thinking numeric designations before a division or brigade are komapanies, but what about a battalion or regiment?

[ 23 March 2002: Message edited by: Gibson ]</p>

__________________
'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
- Kurt Meyer, after his loyal comrade Heinz Schrott was killed by perfidious French partisans while wounded in a street.

Gibson :

It's not that hard to figure out. Carl is correct in pointing out that the Roman abbrev. are for the Abteilungs (battalions). The regular numbers 1-16 are for the Kompanies. Individual regiments would be numbered after the regiment heading like:
SS Panzer Regiment 1, etc.
For the Luftwaffe it is very similiar, in this case I give you an example of a fighter wing.
Jagdgeschwader 300 (Fighter wing 300)made up of Stab and I-IV. gruppen, each gruppen made up of 4 staffeln. I. gruppe had 1-4 staffels. II. gruppe had 5-8 staffels, and so forth up to 16th staffel in IV. gruppe. This example is for this fighter wing after mid August 44 till the end of the war. Each gruppe had a stab or staff flight made up of about 5 aircraft. Each staffel generally had between 12 and 15 aircraft each in 44.

any easier.......probably not !

E

Correctamundo my friend, and here are a few other examples.

5th J.R. = 5th Jager Regimant.

StaKPJR 12. = Stabskopmpanie Jager Regiment 12.

15/229 = 15th Kompanie Jager Regiment 229.

7 Gebrgmt 100 or 7/100 = 7th Kompanie Gebirgejager Regiment 100.

7 SJR 1 = 7th Kompanie Ski Jager Regiment 1.

SS Geb.J.R.1 = SS Gebirgejager Regiment 1 "Prinz Eugen".

4 Fj (Pi) 5. = 4th Fallschirmjager Pioneer Battalion 5.

Pibtn 92 = Pioneer Battalion 92.

3 Pz (Pi) btn 209. = 3rd Panzer pioneer Battalion 209.

5 SS Art Btn 54. = 5th SS Artillery Battalion 54 "Nederland".

6 SS Inf Rgmt 1. = 6th SS Infantry Regiment 1 "Totenkopf".

3 SS F/abt 17 GvB. 3rd SS Flak Detachment 17 "Gotz von Berlichingen"

3 SS Pzartrgmt 5. = 3rd SS Panzer Artillery Regiment 5 "Wiking" SS Panzer Division.

MaAbt 531 = Marine Artillery Detachment (Coastal Artillery) 531.

Btty "V" i.d. MaFAbt 219 = Battery "Voltzendorf" Marine Flak Detachment 219 (9th Marine Flak Regiment)

DivFusBtn/A.A. 102 = Division Fusilier Battalion Anti-Aircraft(Artillery) # 102.

1 PzJagAbt 20. = 1st section Panzer Jager Detachment 20.

2 (S) PzJgrAbt 665. = 2nd section Panzer Jager Detachment 665.

4 SS PzRgmt 2. = 4th Battalion SS Panzer Regiment 2 "Das Reich".

7 PzRgmt 6. = 7th Battalion Panzer Regiment 6.

2 P FBD. 2nd panzer Regiment Fuhrer Begleit Division.

1 FjPzRgmt "H.G." = 1st Fallschirm Panzer Regiment "Hermann Goring Panzer Korps."

4 P.D = 4th Panzer Division.

352 I.D. = 352nd Infantry Division.

17 A.D. = 17th Artillery Division.

Just to name a few actual units. WHEW.....

[ 24 March 2002: Message edited by: C.Evans ]</p>

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl :

Great lists but a question. Towards the bottom you mention 4 SS PzRgt 2 Das Reich and 7 PzRgt 6. Wouldn't these indicate 4th Kompanie and 7th Kompanie respectively ? My understanding is that the Panzer Regiments both Heer and W-SS were only equipped with two Abteilungs I. and II. battalions with four companies each ? Equipped with the Pz V and the Pz. IV in the other or a mix or replaced by the Stug III in 1944-45 ? What do ya think my friend ?? !

E

Erich--your right-- Thanks my friend. I meant to say Kompanies and not battalions. I was in a rush to post this as the library was about to close

[ 25 March 2002: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

[ 25 March 2002: Message edited by: C.Evans ]</p>

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl, thanks for the abbreviations, you covered a wide range of them which I will surely come across! Most Ive seen, but the ones I didnt are very good to know.

Thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

__________________
'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
- Kurt Meyer, after his loyal comrade Heinz Schrott was killed by perfidious French partisans while wounded in a street.

Quite welcome and I have tons more.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

hey, the germans didnt have a corner on strange unit names, try the PPCLI or the Hasty P's

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

Princess Patricias Candian Light Infantry ( excuse spelling). One of my Regiments sister units. But whats the other one, or is that their nickname.

[ 28 March 2002, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Bish ]

__________________
'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT

Just wait and I will dig up some obscure ones......

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Bish
Hastings and Prince Edward? Regt
Subject of Farley Mowat's most excellent "The Regiment" book. 1st Can Inf Div in WW II fought in Sciliy and Italy, alongside the PPLI for one, also the RCR and Van Doos

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

Heres one for the English: DLI can you guess what unit this was? Paul E. and I can.

and I will give you a big hint. Only one of the DLI's Victoria Cross Recipients of WW2 is still living.

If I say more--it might make you go visit the Victoria Cross site and see who it was--and that would be cheating, and we wouldnt want to cheat now----would we?

[ 01 April 2002, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Durham Light Infantry. Also known as the Durham bumpers.

__________________
'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT

OK, try these ones. Without going to the Army website

KORBR
PWRR
RGBW
PWO
RRF
RRW
RWF
D&D
WSF

[ 02 April 2002, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: Bish ]

__________________
'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT

Great Job Bish! Durham Light Inf. The V.C who still lives is Captain Richard Wallace Annand--a VERY fine gentleman.

The first one; Possible something like: The Kings Own (?) Border Rifles?? The other ones I have no clue.

I know there are dozens of others like: Kings Own Borderers. I'll have to check up on my ww1 stuff for more

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Actually Carl, the two you mention are one and the same. Its Kings Own Royal Border Regiment. Thats my unit. There is also the KOSb which is Kings Own Scottish Borderers. I will give you guys some time with the rest.

Billy, you do like that Hastings mob, don't you. just seen your post at on war. Using a different name, crafty.

__________________
'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT

Mein Gott! How is anybody supposed to figure out the strength of a British unit if all they know is GCMG/KCB/MP?!

I mean sure, it confuses the enemy too, but what about your own HQ! [img]smile.gif[/img] Actually German units have similar names too, but only unofficially and usually only as a nickname very few insider's know about. My last active unit was also known as "Metternicher Pioniere" even though it was the ex-Pionierbattalion 5 and now Pionierbatallion 320 and which will be dissolved in about 2-3 months.

[ 03 April 2002, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Seidel ]

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„Solange man nicht mit dem Kopf unterm Arm rumläuft geht es doch noch!" Erwin Rommel

Thanks Bish--and I know I have more British Regimental names rotting away somewhere in the back and darkest reaches of my mind. Im going to see what I can come up with tomorrow morning after I check Detlevs site for his militaria updates.

Andreas--ah HA--your a Combat Engineer eh? My good friend Susanne of Konstanz (whos father is still living thankfully) was a medic attached to a Pioneer unit that fought at Stalingrad. He along with a small group of men tried to escape Stalingrad and were captured sometime after Paulus surrendered. He (Herr G.) was not released from a russian Gulag untill sometime in late 1955--wrongfully held captive for too many years.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I havent dug up some more British Regimental Abbrevs--yet, but here are a few more German ones.

I will "cheat" a bit and throw in a ww1 unit or so abbrev, but I will let you try and see which they or it, will be [img]smile.gif[/img]

15KPvS.Rgmt.
51.IR.Rgmt.
4(MG)KPGr.Rgmt576
3 Gr.Rgmt12
5Uh.Kav.Rgmt.
14(PzJag)Gr.Rgmt220
PiZug.d.StKP/Gr.Rgmt105
9Gr.Rgmt200(mot)
3Gr.Rgmt/Gr.Gru385

Just a few more for now to "whet" your whistles. Anyone care to say whicch of these and or how many of these you suspect of being ww1 German Regiments? I promise you (as Sergeant Chef Dagonoff would say to some Legionniares in: "Beau Geste", its NOT that difficult.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.