Very accurate info on Mr Hartmann here...

And a great pic!



Name: Erich Alfred Hartmann

Date of Birth: April 19, 1922

Date of Death: September 20, 1993

Interred: Weil im Schönbuch near Stuttgart

Father's name: Alfred Erich Hartmann

Father's birth date: October 1, 1894

Father's place of birth: Ehingen/Wuerttemberg

Mother's maiden name: Elisabeth Wilhelmine Machtholf

Mother's birth date: February 16, 1897

Mother's place of birth: Ehingen/Wuerttemberg

Date of father's and mother's marriage: September 2, 1920

Place: Stuttgart/Wuerttemberg

Date of Erich's marriage to Ursula Paetsch: September 10, 1944

Place of marriage: Bad Wiesse

Chronological formal education:

April 1928 - April 1932: Grade school in Weil im Shoenbuch
April 1932 - April 1936: High School Gymnasium in Boeblingen
April 1936 - April 1937: NPEA Gymnasium in Rottweil
April 1937 - April 1940: Gynasium at Korntal

Education major: Would have studied medicine but war intervened.

First station and date of reporting: 10th Flying Regiment, Neukuhren, East Prussia (near Koenigsberg), October 1, 1940

Chronological list of stations:

October 1, 1940: 10th Flying Regiment, Neukuhren
March 1, 1941: Air War School, LKS2, Berlin-Gatow
November 1 1941: Pre-fighter School 2, Lachon-Speyerdorf
March 1, 1942: Fighter School 2, Zerbst-Anhalt
August 20, 1942: Fighter Supply Group, East Gleiwitz/Oberschleissen
October 10, 1942: 7/III/JG52, Eastern Front
September 2, 1943: C.O. 9 Sqdn. II/JG52, Eastern Front
October 1, 1944: C.O. 6 Sqdn. II/JG52, Eastern Front
November 1, 1944: C.O. I Gruppe/JG52, Eastern Front
March 1, 1945: transition to Me-262 jets at Lechfeld
March 25, 1945: C.O. I Gruppe/JG52

Date commissioned as an officer: March 1, 1942

Place commissioned: Fighter School 2, Zerbst

Chronological list of dates of promotion:

Oberleutnant: July 1, 1944
Hauptmann: September 1, 1944
Major: May 8, 1945
Oberstleutnant: December 12, 1960
Oberst: July 26, 1967

Date awarded Knight's Cross: October 29, 1943

Date awarded Knight's Cross, and Oak Leaves: March 2, 1944

Date awarded Knight's Cross, Oak Leaves, and Swords: July 4, 1944

Date awarded Knight's Cross, Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds: July 25, 1944

http://users.aol.com/dheitm8612/hartmann.htm

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Great picture Kai--I know the Artist who did it. His brother Claudio Ortelli has a website selling his brothers paintings. Also--they both collect ww1 and ww2 German items and have quite a nice and huge collection.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

PS, I forgot to mention that you can have a painting of you done wearing a German ww2 uniform. I no longer have the url to their site but--it is a nice site to go to.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Heinrich Ehrler
Major

208 victories in 400+ missions, quite a good efficiency.

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Heinrich Ehrler was born on 14 September 1917 at Oberbalbach in Nordbaden. He joined the army in 1935 and served with a flak unit in the Spanish Civil War. In 1940 he began flying training. On completion of his training he was posted to 4./JG 77 operating from bases in Norway. He gained his first victory in May 1940 shooting down a RAF Blenheim bomber. 4./JG 77 was redesignated 4./JG 5 on 1 February 1941. Ehrler recorded his second victory on 19 February 1942 and was now operating over the Northern front from bases in Finland and northern Norway. He was to score a total of 11 victories with the unit before he was promoted to Staffelkapitän of 6./JG 5 on 22 August. Between January and September 1942, Ehrler recorded 54 victories. Leutnant Ehrler was awarded the Ritterkreuz on 4 September for 64 victories. On Saturday, 27 March 1943, Ehrler, in short order, downed five Russian Kittyhawks and Airacobras in aerial combat. While attempting to engage another Russian fighter his aircraft was hit by a 20mm cannon shell forcing his disengagement from the battle. He returned safely to base with slight wounds. On 1 June, he was named Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 5. On 6 June, he claimed four Russian-flown Hurricanes to record his 96th through 99th victories. He gained his 100th victory the next day. After recording his 112th victory on 2 August, he was awarded the Eichenlaub (Nr 265). He shot down eight enemy aircraft on 17 March 1944 to record his 124th to 131st victories. He bettered this effort on 25 May 1944 downing nine to record his 147th to 155th victories. On 1 August 1944 he was promoted to Kommodore of JG 5.

On 12 November 1944 a message reporting incoming British bombers reached the 27 year old Geschwaderkommodore of JG 5. Ehrler, with his score at 199 victories, scrambled to intercept the Lancasters of 9 and 617 Squadrons at the head of a Gruppe of Bf 109s. The fighters were too late. The British Lancasters sank the battleship Tirpitz north of Tromsö with the loss of a thousand sailors. Ehrler was called to account for this disaster and at his court martial was accused of flying to get his 200th victory, instead of guiding his fighters from ground control. Ehrler was sentenced to three years Festungshaft, a more honourable punishment than imprisonment. Ehrler had been nominated for the Schwerten prior to the battleship disaster. The award was never made. He was stripped of his command. However, he was able to record his 200th victory on 20 November 1944. Ehrler joined JG 7 on 27 February 1945. His comrades knew that the old fire had been burned out of the gifted Ehrler. On 4 April 1945, he shot down two B-17s. Ehrler then reported he had run out of ammunition and rammed a third. Erhler did not return from the mission, and his body was found the next day at Schaarlippe near Berlin.
Heinrich Ehrler achieved 208 victories, of which about 10 were recorded over the Western front. Included in his score are eight victories flying the Me 262.

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/ehrler.html



http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Jagdflie...ich/ehrler.htm

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Actually Kai Ehrler was shot down in action with B-17's....... He was in a terrible position and just sat in the Formation ready to be shot down, and as a result as he left the B-17 formation was pounced on by a P-51 and had no chance according to eye-witnesses from JG 7. He scored 7 US bombers with JG 7 and a P-51. He was shot down near Stendal/Altmark on April 4, 1945, and his a/c was one of 13 JG 7 a/c lost this date due to enemy action.

E

Thanx Erich!

We are now (again(!)) much wiser thanx to you!

By the way, Erich, who do you personally think were the most efficient Luftwaffe pilots? Or is it possible to even think it this way? I mean Eastern front and Nachtjagd etc were quite different types of air war.What do you think?

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Kai : Tough question no doubt !

That would depend as you said on day or night fighter pilots/crews. And also on the year. I can think of how brave or maybe fool-hardy the day fighter boys were in 1945 being overwhelmed by US and RAF numbers and even better fighter a/c. It did prove though that many top aces could continualy score against the Allies but did relaize that at anytime their number maybe up in the air or on landing approach. some fo the Luftwaffe aces thought they would be out of harms way when they joined/transferred into Me 262 Geschwader JG 7 but they were to learn soon enough that was not the case.
For night fighter crews it was a matter of getting their radar sets un-jammed and trying to find the RAF bomber pulks or streams near the targets or soon after. By fall of 1944 the emergence of the silent death- Mossie night fighter had many crews scared in their boots and yet from reading accounts many German crews didn;t seem to be aware of the continued threat the Mossie presented and of course suffered for it....

E

Thanx Erich!

I seem to get the point ( finally ) that Mosquito was quite a nuisance or even worse to the Nachtjagd pilots. I know there´s been talk of it but not until now am I getting the hang of it. I had rather thought of it as pathfinder etc, maybe in U-boot missions.

Heh, I think I am making progress here so I can´t be too old, then ???

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Erich--I got a small surprise for you if I can afford it--its right up your alley. Ill let ya know more later--ptoviding the place had both parts to it.

BTW--do you have a CD player?????

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Kai :

It is very strange as some pilots I have interviewed never had a problem with Mossies ever ! For instance in a lenghty interview last year of Fünker Anton Heinemann who by the way is a RK winner and crewed with RK winner Gerhard Raht of I./NJG 2, Anton said several times we never saw them or picked them up on our rearward sets. maybe Gerhard was that good of a pilot too, always changing the direction of his flight subtely and then curving back, gaining and decreasing altitude until they had an RAF bomber in their sites.....

Carl, yes I have a couple of CD players.....what are you doin ?

E

The old wooden wonder, I have some good pics of em if any ones interested that Ill put up when I fix my damn scanner..

Few pics of these canvas covered wanders returning from missions, half winged, burnt out and I mean burnt out fuselages and tailplanes...

Some of the most audacias missions were carried out by this aircraft, blew the walls at Amiens prison for escapees, the Gestapo HQ in Oslo, the Phillips radio factory at Eindhoven, the Dutch cental repository, Gestapo HQ Copenhagen unfortunately though one crashed on local school on that one, among many other missions.

Great recce aircraft, and also used in anti shipping and good record on subs...3 in one day in April 45.

And yes as a night fighter too...For the 17 months 1oo group were in action from Nov 43 orginised primarily as night fighters, disbanding in May 45 the group is accredited with 249 enemy shot down and 18 more kills on the ground for the loss of 69 mossies.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

Sorry scource for above was Mosquito the illustrated history by Philip.j.Birtles.

And until this thread I had never got round to opening it in 3 years....

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

Yes please post some night fighter Mossie pics......

E

Gets better, 600 odd v1's accounted for too...

Looking through this book, theres half a dozen pics of night fighter varients, ill post em up this weekend.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

Interesting...



The prototype night fighter with a circular segmented air brake installation.

Ideas on this and how well it worked?

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Nope never seen that one before...

Dusting off my scanner to put some stuff up on this remarkable aircraft.

The Mosie actually did daylight raids on Berlin I read also...

Some stuff here too..

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/raids/ameins.html

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/raids/gestapo.html

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/.../mosquito.html

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

Ugh ! Air brakes on a twin engine a/c.....was tried on a Ju 88A bomber....... the foils or flaps did not supress or release, thus a total destruction of the unit and crew.

Yes the mossie was the perfect a/c for attacking Berlin especially at night, this is the basis for our book coming up in another year. What a fantastic aircraft it was !

E

Erich-- thats good and I dont Kiss and Tell--you'll just have to wait and see I have something I think you might like but--I just want the priviledge of listening to it once. Trouble is--that will not be until after I finish moving in February. BUT--I think it will be worth waiting for

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

And the Luftie nüß cries foul !

E