Wow!

Wilhelm sure did not waste time that night...
Thanx Erich!

Heres´the Me-262




And other interesting Me-262 pics:

http://www.afwing.com/intro/me262/sideview.htm

__________________

Right O that is the one ! it may also have had a white number which was indicitive of the JV 44 formation. All dark green a/c from pics I have seen have the typical numerations before the balkenkreuz.

From ? months of 45 the unit was overwhelmed with Me 262's from all sorts of defacto Luftwaffe units, both fighter protection and bomber. An almost junkyard of 262's was in Gallands protection or I should say under his charge...."what am I going to do with all of these ?" and then off to SE Bavaria and Ainring, Austria for the protetive Würger staffel of Fw 190D's

E

Dietrich Peltz

The youngest-ever general in the Luftwaffe, Dietrich Peltz joined the Army in 1934. While attending the Army cadet school, he was transferred to the first instructional class of the Luftwaffe, earning his wings in 1936. Only two weeks prior to the beginning of World War II, he was a Ju 87 dive-bomber squadron leader in the last big military exercise at Neuhammer. Because of unforecast bad weather, 13 crews lost their lives in the exercise; but Peltz did not lose a single aircraft from his squadron. In the Polish campaign, his attack on the railway station at Kamiona cut off one of the last avenues for retreat of the Polish Army. His achievements in this campaign earned him the Iron Cross, First and Second Class. In the opening of the French campaign, Peltz's squadron supported the air insertion of infantry behind Belgian lines. In all, he led 102 missions against Poland and France; his squadron didn't suffer a single loss. After the French campaign, he converted to the Ju 88 bomber and was assigned to the staff of Kampfgeschwader 77. Peltz belonged to a select group of pilots who carried out solo raids, diving out of the clouds at low level to bomb airfields, factories, and rail stations. For actions during the campaigns in Poland, France, and Britain, he earned the Knight's Cross, Germany's highest honor. Elevated to group commander, Peltz developed superior bombing techniques, allowing his group to achieve astonishing success against precision targets during the Russian campaign. His highly accurate results against difficult point targets earned his decoration with the Oak Leaves to the Knight's Cross. He was then assigned as head of the Bomber Unit Commanders School, where all current and future operational bomber commanders had to prove themselves. Out of the Commanders School, the Luftwaffe tasked Peltz to form a special unit, Kampfgeschwader 66, to develop the use of rocket bombs against Allied shipping. Following that assignment, he was the first of the Luftwaffe's new generation to be named Commander of the Bomber Force and Inspector of Bombers. The contributions Peltz made to the war effort earned him the distinction of being the 31st recipient of the Swords to the Knight's Cross. In August 1943, Goring named Peltz "Attack Leader England," promoted him to General Major, and ordered him to renew the bombing offensive against Britain. During the Ardennes offensive of December 1944, Peltz took command of II Fighter Corps. In March 1945, he took command of the entire Reich Defense Force. Following the war, Peltz returned to civilian life and made a career in industry.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/goe/eaglebio...os/peltz92.htm

---------------------
Gen Dietrich Peltz, bomber pilot and commander of Luftwaffe air operations in the Ardennes offensive, designed the operation as a preemptive strike on Allied airfields, but weather delayed its execution. Fighter ace Adolph Galland opposed Base Plate in favor of concentrated antibomber attacks he hoped would stop the Allied strategic campaign. Reminiscent of Leigh*Mallory's "Big Wing" approach during the Battle of Britain, Galland's idea died because of Wacht Am Rhein. Although Base Plate achieved tactical surprise, Allied antiaircraft artillery and fighters butchered the attackers in one of the most crippling one*day air encounters of the war. Among the irreplaceable losses were at least 80 wing, group, and squadron leaders. This led to bomber*fighter tensions in the Luftwaffe leadership that culminated in the "mutiny of the aces." Conducted against the unyielding depth and breadth of Allied air operations, Base Plate sealed the fate of the Luftwaffe.

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...ev/parker.html

Operation Bodenplatte certainly caused some losses and concern among the Allied tactical air forces. Had the Luftwaffe fighters managed to assault the airfields half an hour earlier -- before the bulk of the Allied aircraft were in the air -- they might have wrought serious carnage. Had not the Jagdwaffe been so diluted by casualties and inexperienced, under-trained pilots, its performance might have been considerably better. As it was, the Luftwaffe lost around 300 aircraft and -- more importantly -- 200 pilots killed, missing, or prisoner in a few hours on 1 January 1945. Among them were some of the most experienced Staffel, Gruppe, and Geschwader commanders. It was a self-inflicted blow from which the Luftwaffe could not recover.

http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/archives/980728.shtml

__________________

Ah good ole DP or dog poop.

A bomber pilot taking over the day fighter force. ....... The Jagdgeschwaders hated the man and even the former bomber make up unit JG 301 allowed the clown to fly the Ta 152 and then almost kicked him off base. A very undeceisive man prone to make many mistakes at the administrative level. He would have done better to stay in the cockpit of a Ju 188.

E

Your just 4 short of your 3,000th mein freund.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Dang, so close and yet so far I suppose..........I'm on another computer as my PC has bit the dust....yee haw, rats ! Hmm better go find some wilde sau or some more 262 info to add while I still can. Hopefully can add to the what's happening thread tomorrow as march 18, 1945 was a very important date/battle over the Reich between Me 262's of Jg 7 and US bomber formations.

E

I trust this forum can accept one man's protest against the stream of hero worship verging on idolatry in its discussion of former Luftwaffe aces. I yield to nobody in my appreciation of their outstanding skill and courage in their fight for what they eventually knew to be a lost cause. And I don't believe for a minute that they were all Nazis, though all too many of them were. It should be remembered however the kind of world they helped create when they were victorious and masters of Europe from 1940 to 1943, and the kind of world that Hitler would have ruled if they were still victorious in 1945. If you need true heroes, you need seek no further than the brave young German souls who gave up their lives in the underground fight against Hitler and the Nazis. Certainly they deserve to be venerated as true heroes. Heroes of the kind that this sad world needs more than ever today. I regret if this all comes off as just so much more preaching, and for the record you should know I am strongly opposed to our current incursion in Iraq.

__________________
35 missions on B17 from Ludwigshafen to Berlin. See mission list http://www.b17sam.com

free beer tomorrow

Excellant Post, Could not agree with you more about the Germans.

__________________
Go-Flames-Go

Hero worship ?

hmmmmmmmmm that's a new one Sam. Uk ! that's all I can say. man I had relatives serve on both sides of the conflict. You can read my profile and see what my interests are as I had two relatives serve in the Luftwaffe as well as over 100 plus friends serve in the 8th 9th and 15th air forces. Just want to get down the truth about all this which after more than 55 years is pretty darn obscure and you know it as well as I !

E

Agree with Erich here definitely. Would not put a cent for the nazi cause any day. But as personal bravery, that is a different thing, to be learnt and valued.

And wishing to learn and understand history as much as possible.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 18. March 2003, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: Kai-Petri ]

__________________

Ok, I get it...

Anyway, here´s some info on the attacks on England early 1944 led by him.

From The Luftwaffe 1933-1945
Williamson Murray

In Late November 1943 Göring ordered Dietrich Pelz to prepare for a retaliation offensive against London. He promised that units detailed for these attacks would receive a full complement of crews and aircraft. In conclusion, the Reichsmarschall asked Pelz whether he ´would accept Do 217´s in the bombing force.Pelz replied that he would welcome anything that would carry a bomb.That was precisely what he got.

Over December and Early January 1944 the Germans accumulated a conglomeration of 550 aircraft on the airfields of France for the offensive:
Ju 88´s, Ju 188´s, Do 217´s, Me 410´s, Fw 200´s, and even 35 brand new He 177´s.

The widely differing capabilities of these aircraft and the limited navigational and flying skills of the crews led Pelz to make the attack as simple as possible. Specially trained pathfinders, equipped with various marking devices, would locate and mark the target;the other bombers would hopefully bomb on these markers.

Göring opened the offensive on January 21 with a typical gesture. He left Berlin to assume personal command of the operation.He might have saved himself the trouble as the offensive got off to a bad start. The Luftwaffe launched 447 bombers in two waves at the British capital. Navigation was poor, the pathfinder system broke down, and out of 268 tons of bombs dropped over England, only 32 tons landed in London.For the following four months the Germans continued attacking with less than spectacular results. The next two attacks were dismal failures;on Feb 18, the bombers managed to drop 175 tons within London´s confines. Thereafter, the Germans managed to get 50 % of bomb loads within the target area, but the decreasing size of the force gave better accuracy less significance.

In the "baby blitz" attacks the Germans lost 329 bombers-a loss that was virtually irreplaceable. From 695 operational ready bombers in northern France at the end of Dec 1943, bombers stregth had sunk to 144 by May 1944.There is no doubt these bombers would have been a useful addition to German strength when D-day occurred.

PS. Congrats Erich on the 3000th posting!!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

__________________

Hi B-17 Sam--Sir, what you said was wellsaid--about the Germans. I have to agree with Erich and Kai on the other hand and as I too had a father that fought the Germans--as well as a Grandfather and two Uncles, I heard many stories of their experiances--during and after the war.

I dont think anyone here is worshipping anyone. I do admit that as someone who knows many vets from both sides--I respect every one of these gents equally. Ive made many friends with German, British and American vets--all who have my up-most respect.

My Father was in the 8th Airforce--and flew in B-17s over Germany--Wilhelmshaven is one place I remember him talking about.

My Grandfather was Captain of the SS Fort Lee--which was torpedoed and sunk by U 181 in November 1944. I was contacted by U 181s Chief Engineering Officer--Dieter Hille--and was invited to attend their reunion in Bad Camberg Germany on Sept 16 and 17--2000.

I think that knowing at least the vets I do know--I dont think that the vast majority og German vets are much different than the 10 Uboat vets I spent 2 days with.

I was very impressed that, when they all arrived and we took out seats--that the very first thing that they did was--we all held hands and Dieter Hille said a prayer for all mariners from all nations--in both English and German. They they had a special prayer for all the lives lost on the Russian Submarine--The Kursk. Because of that--I was VERY impressed with these vets--let alone that many served with Kapitanleutnant Wolfgang Luth--one of the uboat arms greatest heroes.

Anyway--its been my great pleasure to have met--Knights Cross Recipients, Medal of Honor Recipients and thanks to my great freind--Paul--I even have had contact with a Victoria Cross Recipient.

I know men who were on the Enola Gay, crew from the Memphis Belle, Some VMF 214th Black Sheep Squadron, and others.

I hope I have not offended you in any way, im here because of my historical interests in the men, equipment and the battles that made up ww2.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

You cant judge people by the leaders they follow. A mans actions should be judged on those actions alone, when discussing bravery, courage and tenacity.

History should be an unbias judge but we all have our own prejudicies and bias.

The only way to report the truth is from an unbias standpoint, something very hard to achieve.

On the subject of aces... Hans Joachim-Marseille gets my vote. [img]smile.gif[/img]

__________________
"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

By the way Kai, wicked pic of the 262.

__________________
"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Josef "Sepp" Wurmheller

Victories : 102
Awards : Deutsches Kreuz in Gold (21 August 1942)
Ritterkreuz (4 September 1941)
Eichenlaub (13 November 1942)
Schwertern (24 October 1944)
Units : JG 53, JG 2

Wurmheller gained 102 victories (9 on Eastern Front, 93 on Western Front including at least 13 four engined bombers).

Born in Oberbayern in 1917, Josef Wurmheller joined 2./JG 53 as an Unteroffizier in 1939. On 30 September 1939, some Messerschmitt 109s of I./JG 53 met a formation of five Fairey "Battle" bombers near Saarbrücken. The bombers had been sent out from 150th squadron of the British AASF on armed reconnaissance. In a twenty minutes' uneven combat, the Germans claimed five bombers shot down - one of them by Unteroffizier Wurmheller, who thus scored his first kill. After this defeat, the British cancelled all air patrols across the German border.

Wurmheller served as an instructor from November 1939, returning to combat duty with 5./JG 53 in June 1940. During the Battle of Britain Wurmheller survived twice being shot down over the Channel and raised his score with no more than three. Having been shot down into the "Kanal" in a Bf 109 E-4 (W.Nr. 5212) on 23 November 1940, he was locked into hospital until March 1941.

His first real success came on 7 May 1941, as Josef Wurmheller (now transferred to 5./JG 53 and promoted to Feldwebel) managed to shoot down two "Spitfires" within one minute - his victories Nos. 9 and 10. After a short time at the Eastern Front, where he claimed 9 victories in Russia, flying the Bf 109 F-2, "black 3 + -", he was sent back to the English Channel - to III./JG 2 "Richthofen" - in July 1941. Joined the II./JG 2 "Richthofen" at the end of July 1941, possibly flying with the Stab.

During the following months, "Sepp" Wurmheller would develop into one of the most dangerous adversaries for the RAF on the "Channel Front". Having brought down another six British aircraft, "Sepp" was promoted to Oberfeldwebel and awarded the Knight's Cross on 24 September 1941. By the time he was awarded the Knight's Cross, he had achieved a total score of 32 victories. After that he was once again assigned to a flying instructor position. Wurmheller returned to combat duty in May 1942, joining 1./JG 2 with Rudi Pflanz. In May 1942 he shot down 10 RAF aircraft, the following month another 12.

His most successful day was during the landing at Dieppe on 19 August 1942: Despite a crash landing during which he broke a leg and suffered a concussion, Wurmheller kept flying in combat all day long. By the end of the day, he had knocked seven British aircraft out of the Dieppe skies with his FW 190s.

Following his 60th victory on 20 August 1942, he was awarded the Oak Leaves to the Knight's Cross in November 1942. He was now made officer with Leutnant's rank. On 1 April 1943, Wurmheller was appointed Staffelkapitän of 9./JG 2. On 17 May 1943, Wurmheller scored his 70th victory and on 8 March 1944 he downed his 90 enemy. On 8 June 1944 he was promoted to Major and took over the III./JG 2. During the difficult battles in the Normandie skies, Major Wurmheller achieved his three last victories - Nos. 100 (on 16 June 1944), 101 and 102, all but nine achieved against "Western" enemies.

On 22 June 1944, the Luftwaffe launched 427 fighter and 80 bomber sorties on the invasion front. Against 19 reported victories, 28 aircraft were lost - and together with them, 15 airmen were killed. Among them was Major Josef Wurmheller, who went down after a collision with his wingman. He crashed on 22 June 1944 while flying an FW 190 A-8, W.Nr. 171 053.

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/wurmhe/wurmhe.htm

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/wurmheller.html

__________________

Hermann Graf

Born 24. 10. 1912 in Engen
Died 76-years old 4.11.1988



Shot down 212 enemy aircraft in 830 flown missions.

In 1942 Hermann was a huge success. In eight months he received the four highest awards in Germany! On Januray 24 he got the Knight´s Cross after 42 victories. Seven victories on 14th May raised his victories to 104, for which he received Oak Leaves three days later. Only two days and to victories later he got the Swords.
On September 4th Graf became the second pilot to reach 150 victories. After reaching 172 victories on 16th September he was awarded the Brilliants. On 2nd October he was the FIRST pilot to reach 200 victories!!


Nice pics and his planes with camouflage,
spanish (?) site:

http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao...e3945/graf.htm

__________________

two cents coming up ! go to www.eagle-editions.com and check out the new book this year on Graf and Grislawski by Christer Bergstrom. This will be an excellent edition for the book shelf and the war on the Ost front. Interesting materials on the short lived JG 50 with the Bf 109G-6 against the Mossie during the day and then the defence against the US bombers over the Reich.

E

Walter "Gulle" Oesau



The third pilot in the Luftwaffe to reach 100 victories!

Walter “Gulle” Oesau was born on 28 June 1913 at Farnewinkel in the Dithmarschen region of Holst. He enlisted in the army in 1933 and served in an artillery regiment. By 1934 he had become a Fahnenjunker and was undertaking flying training with the Deutschen Verkehrsfliegerschule. On completing his flying training he was posted to Jagdgeschwader “Richtofen”. Leutnant Oesau was one of the first fighter pilots to join J/88 in Spain in April 1938. Here he served with 3. J/88 and gained nine victories. He became one of only 27 recipients of the Spanienkreuz in Gold mit Brillanten . He was also wounded in this campaign and was awarded the Spanish Wound Badge. On 1 March 1939, Oesau joined the Stabsschwarm of I./JG 2. On 15 July, Oberleutnant Oesau was appointed Staffelkapitän of 1./JG 20 which wa