How about who was the worst General of World War Two? I leave you with this while Im on holiday! Percival(I think that was his name!) in Singapore springs to mind, but I aint saying anymore... over to you guys!

__________________
"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Most Italian and quite a few French generals probably qualify. I'll have to look this one up!

__________________
"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

Ha haaa ! I thought about posting this one !

This will probably run for about ten pages...
I can probably think of loads; I'll start with Major-General G I ( 'Ivo') Thomas, 43rd Infantry Divn. Take a look at the famous photo of him 'snubbing' Sosabowski at Arnhem and you'll see why I don't like him !

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Yup the British do seem to have the monopoly on ignorant commanders!

__________________
"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

We-e-ll, I've got my doubts about Mark Clark, too ! But I'd like to do some more reading before damning.

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Hi all

Does any one have the picture of Major-General G I ( 'Ivo')Thomas where he is 'snubbing' Sosabowski at Arnhem?
Or does anyone know a good site where i can see it?

Sverri

Hi Sverri

Haven't sen the photo on the web, it is reproduced in several books about Arnhem, eg Middlebrook's 'Arnhem 1944 - The Airborne Battle'.

The photo was taken at the Valburg Conference on 24th September '44.

Aaargh ! I just looked at it again - Thomas looks such an *rs*h*l* !

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Just had a look aswell... dont you just love arrogant, ignorant British Generals! Nobody makes them like us!

__________________
"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Géneral Maurice Gamelin
Géneral Henri Corap (7th French Army)

Generallo Ettore Bastico
Generallo Rodolfo Graziani

Marshall sir Bernard L. Montgomery (ooopsss... my mistake ) No, he was not that bad.
Marshall sir Harold Alexander

Generaloberst Alfred Jodl
Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler

Marshall Ion Antonescu

(I will come with more later)

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Uhhh... I'd say he was certainly close to that bad...
besides Africa, I've never been atall impressed with Monty. And considering how many troops he commanded and how much power he had, his incompetence cost more than many lower generals...
(not sure why I dislike Monty so much... He's just always rubbed me the wrong way!)

__________________
Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

I often wonder how much Monty's odd-ball personality has affected views of his military performance.

On a scale of one to ten, with Monty as incompetent, surely that'd leave Clark peeling potatoes ?

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Refresh my memory- Clark was the American general that decided to vacation at Anzio for a couple months? Under german fire?

__________________
Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Clark commanded the US Fifth Army in Italy. He was highly intelligent and a good staff officer but

'..his weaknesses were .. bitter jealousy of his rivals and an avid desire for publicity... Clark's concept of the art of command did not embrace the idea that he should support and encourage his subordinates...' ( Graham & Bidwell, 'Tug Of War - The Battle for Italy' )

His greatest foul-ups were his temporary loss of nerve at Salerno and his decision to 'enter Rome in triumph' rather than by-passing it in pursuit of the retreating Germans.

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I wondered how long it would take for dear old Monty to crop up!

I totally agree Fredrich, I have long had my doubts about him.

As for Himmler, he should have stuck to being a chicken farmer.

__________________
"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Yes, I do not like Clark either. Martin has very good and true points.

And Montgomery was not that bad. he just was too cautious. But his planns on paper seemed well to me. Beside, he learnt the good things: he copied all Rommel's desert tactics (the problem is that Rommel fell in his own traps!!!). But I must say that Montgomery and Alexander made some of the biggest mistakes of the war. Napoleon had said that Italy, for its terrain and physical form must not be invaded from the South, because it is a long way to the North passing for awful roads and positios, perfect for the defenders. Italy must be invaded in the top, then the rest of the country is aislated and Italy is "hanged" from the "neck". Not listening to this big advice of Napoleon costed them 200.000 casualties for a campaign that we all knoe did not have a lot of importance. It had, but not that much...

I had forgotten about the stupid Sopviet general Budény, who was just a stupid politician who did not know a s... of war.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

GORING-he was never in touch-he was basically just like all the hierarchy of teh Axis general ship-incompetent-and focused only on getting planes in the air-and when his limp-wristed Fuhrer had a spit at him-he balmed perfectly good airman like Adolf Galland (RIP), Hannes Trautloft (RIP) and Gunther Rall.....WHAT AN IDIOT--How can we possibly have overlooked an incompetent drug addict as the worst general!!!!!

__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

I have to agree with Ryan--I think goring was the worst commander of all.

I.e Not finishing the job at Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, Stalingrad--just to name a few.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Even so. Why was he a bad commander? Because he did not have the experience. He had been only a captain during WWI and he did not earn his rank by merit. He was just a politician (a very good one, by the way) but not a general at all. He did a good job in the 1930s when he coordinated Milch and Udet's efforts to build the Luftwaffe. That was nice on him. But he was not a general as I said, and he did not take good decisions due not to his stupidity (because he was all but stupid) but to his lack of experience.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I am amazed that I never replied to this one. I would have to say Bernard Montgomery. I have seen some listed that were poor commanders at the onset of war due to improper strategies (ie French, Italian generals). But Montgomery was there throughout and I cannot believe how this character survived to stay in command of all British forces. Yeah, yeah I know, what about N. Africa. Well, as someone has already posted, Rommel pretty much did to himself because he pushed it to the limit and carried out offenses when he did not have all the resources necessary to ensure success. Montgomery did not attack until the enemy ran out of steam (somewhat smart) but then only when he was oversupplied (this is what made him dumb). The latter is what caused him to lose so many opportunities to take the field. That over cautiousness is what makes him a lame duck. The Brits had nobody else so that is all they had.
As for Goring, all the Friedrich points out is correct but he must have had some kind of mental disorder because of his constant withdrawal to his dreamworld of being some kind of bohemian king wearing makeup and costumes. Freaky Dicky to me.

__________________

American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

I agree with all your thoughts, PzJgr!

Göring was indeed very excentric and lived in a dream world some times (and all the time late in the war...). That did not help him a bit.

And all my thoughts are with you on Monty. He attacked at El Alamein just when he had eight tanks to one... Copied Rommel tactics and well, a samrt thing: he took advantages of Rommel's errors too.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I just knew I'd find yanks bashing Montgomery..I knew it.

Well on the British front Brooke managed to sack most of the real incompetents by 1942. However some, like Neame and Ritchie, still slipped through. Our worst has to be the utterly incompetent Percival who showed a degree of mental paralysis remarkable in an officer of such high rank.

The Americans? Well Clark should have been taken out and shot. Ike nearly fired him in N Africa but gave him a second chance. It did not help that he was teamed in Italy with Alex, who like Ike was a good alliance commander but lacked military skill. Bradley who went to pieces for 3 days during the Ardennes having his nervous breakdown: US generals and troops suffered because they were never taught what to do when things went wrong. It's interesting to speculate what Patton would have done if he was in Bradley's shoes. I think the bubble of his ego would have burst and he'd reacted worse than Bradley.

The French? Unfair really to pick, they were so indoctrinated in defensive strategy. Still Georges leaving no reserves at all in 1940 deserves at least some censure.

There are dozens of Russians...

But what about Germans? Never mind political appointees, what about Wehrmacht professionals? Were Kluge and Kleist bad or just unlucky?

Jumbo

__________________
"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

I've read somewhere that the absolute, total, one-hundred-percent worst was the General who was Eisenhower's Quartermaster in '44/'45. What was his name - Lee, or something ?

Sorry, it's too humid here to start digging through my books to find out !

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson