Hallo, gentlemen!

We have discussed already who do we think was the worst, the best and the most underrated of the generals of WWII. Supossing that you mentioned there the men that you really consider the ablest or dumpest, not the ones you like or dislike.

By example, I said that Von Manstein was the best. But I don't like him very much. I would prefer Von Leeb, Von Bock or Von Runstedt than him. Do you get me?

Now, hit with yours!

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Well theres a reason I chose this pseudonym. I like Jumbo. He made mistakes, he had successes. He was good with allies and he survived the war having held a variety of senior posts from beginning to end. He was constantly obsessed with the survival of his luggage and loved big American cars. Churchill disliked him, because he was too thick-skinned to be influenced by Winstons wilder schemes. His triumph at Dragoon, where Devers plays glowing tribute to him (it was reciprocated) is overlooked by too many people.

Jumbo

__________________
"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

My favorite general? Carl Gustav Emil Von Mannerheim! Not suprised are we?

[ 01 August 2002, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Carl Von Mannerheim ]

__________________

euh...not quite Carl... Can't figure it out...

Can you tell me something about this general...Daft as I am, I have no knowledge of this man...

__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

Not really, Carl...

Here: Karl Rudolph Gerd von Runstedt.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Hi Stevin, Mannerheim commanded the Finnish forces during the Russo-Finnish War.

Post the pic I sent of him Otto--bitte. This pic is a Finnish Press photo of Manerheim touring some frontline fortifications.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Mannerheim... I should know this one!
Here´s a couple of pages to look into if interested:

www.mannerheim.fi
www.mannerheim-museo.fi

If you want to know about one american top major, Larry Thorne, born in Finland, served with the Wiking SS then this is for you ( died in a helicopter crash in the 60´s in Vietnam ):

www.uta.fi/FAST/FIN/GEN/j-karhu.html

or about the finns in the Wiking SS

www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2130/

Hope you like it! [img]smile.gif[/img]

__________________

Damned... where is the Finnish flag?

Well, Von Mannerheim was also the president-dictator of Finland. There are very good pictures of him, where he is wearing his EK I and RK and many other German insignias... I think he was very good too.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Why elase would i ahve used his name, thnx for the web adresses

__________________

Hi guys! Hope you liked the pages I included last time!

Mannerheim was a big leader and his position even became stronger with the victories of the winterwar under his belt. Actually he started as a soldier in the russian army, and worked for the Zaar of Russia all the way of his junior soldier years. He also was asked by the Zaar to make an espionage trip in the area of Mongolia-Nothern China around 1902 during which he took a lot of photos, which are on the display today in mannerheim museum as well as in the net. During the 1918 war in Finland he was the leader of the white (= right wing ) side, and gradually the reds (=communists ) were thrown to the east or killed. I´m afraid I can say that we had the first concentration camps in europe during this war...It was brother against brother and lots of people were killed. Even our beloved president of 1956-1981 Urho kekkonen was a leader of a white´s killer squad! And later on Kekkonen was the best friend of many USSR leaders like Brezhnev and so on.
Anyway, Mannerheim became the national hero even though not a president by then. By the second world war he was the legal leader of our army. In the battles against russians his knowledge of the russian way of life probably gave us a better chance of survival. yes, he also became Godlike to our people, and the most valuable of medals was named after him. In 1942 Hitler came to see him for his birthday ( 75 years ) and according to a legend the weather was foggy and Hitler´s plane almost hit a factory pipe...I think that by coming to Finland it shows that Hitler admired him as well. Huge propaganda value in Finland anyway.
Mannerheim was adoreded by the people and I think his picture is still hanging in many houses, I think my father has some 3 pictures on his walls.
After the war he was not judged as a war criminal ( like many other generals and officers etc ) and became the president. After that he retired to Schwitzerland where he died later on.

In Turku it is cloudy right now, but warm, some 25 celsius degrees. Ok, Carl, what´s your story? Finnish roots maybe or does the story of Finnish courage against russians in the winterwar interest you? hah-haa, the world has to be glad that there´s only 5 million of us, for if there were 60 million of us I guess we´d have been making Grossfinland for a long time by now.

Ok, cheers and bye now!

__________________

I can think of worse fates to befall the world than being dominated by Finland. Everything would at least be efficient, honest and Sauna would be the world religion.

Jumbo

__________________
"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Well, if Finland would have had just twice men than it had in 1939, Timoschenko would have had many, many troubles. I think that the Finnish army was not bigger than 35.000 men, althought it gave the Soviets some 120.000 casualties. I cannot imagine what would have happened if the Finnishs army would have had 100.000 men...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Hello again! Good to be back!

During the fierciest fighting and getting all the men together we possibly could, the last age group being called were the 1926 born,it would add up to 600-650 000 soldiers for Finland. But then again we had to defend a 1000 km border, so there´s a lot of space to line the soldiers. Anyway,I´ll check the statistics and send them later. But it is true that the russians suffered very heavy losses, but we all know that the number of Russian divisons is endless so it always was a momentary relief as one battle ended.

__________________

Beside, considering the Soviet divisions as such is wrong, because the Soviet divisions had the force of a German regiment. So, Soviet corps are more adequate to consider as divisions in the West... Do I make myself clear?

Soviet platoon = ?
Soviet company = German or American platoon
Soviet batallion = company
Soviet regiment = batallion
Soviet brigade and division = regiment
Soviet corps = division
Soviet army = corps
Soviet front = army
Soviet group of armies = Group of armies.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

In the best generals forum I mentioned Rommel as the best...he is my favorite too. There is something about the DAK that draws me to it. He fought with 110% effort and far less than adequate forces. And he nearly won too. I dont know exactly why, but he seems more noble than other generals. If I had to pick a 2nd favorite, it would be Kesselring. He gave the Allies hell in Italy.

__________________
"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

Well, this is the place for Rommel. Because he is the favourite of many.

But he was NOT the best at all. Perhaps the most charming and colourful, and intrepid also, but not the best.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Kai, thanks for this. I enjoyed reading about "Larry A. Thorn" Finnish Captain, Waffen SS soldier, Green Beret Major.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Friedrich, it is true Rommel is the favorite of many.

As to him not being the best...I have an adult and mature response for you...
[img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

__________________
"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

And here is my adult and mature response:

[img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I suggest to you to go to the topic "The best general" and you will see all my points about Rommel. NOT THE BEST.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I remember arguing with those points in that forum...oh well, shall we leave the best general discussion in that thread then? For this thread, I shall only say Rommel is my favorite. Number 2 is of course Kesselring. Number 3 is Marshall. He didnt command any troops as far as I know, but from his position as Chief of Staff he worked tirelessly to turn the US Army from an under-trained ill-equipped obsolete force into the titan it was at the end of WW2. I have to admire his dedication.

__________________
"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

Nice choices, anyway...

Very good officers all.

As well, my favourite is Gerd von Runstedt, but the best was Von Manstein...

It is all a matter of tatses, if that's the word...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

There were many great german generals, but some were outstanding. Then it´s a question of one´s taste again.

I myself have always admired Rommel ( as well ), thanx to the DAK-thing. The british had to make an announcement for the british troops that they may not speak of Rommel as "god -like" but that he was a normal german general.That shows how much they feared and admired him.

Model was great, wherever he was. And in 1944 huge defensive battles against the allied in the west. I truly admire him.

Paul Hausser was great as well. The battle of Kharkow, Normandy etc. And he was the man to create the waffen ss teaching methods so he was kinda father to the system, I think.

One of my latest favourite is Kurt Meyer, schnellmeyer or panzermeyer as you wish. Great battling and didn´t fear a thing. Witt, Wunsche and Meyer made a great team.

I read von Bock´s memoirs just a while ago. I truly was inspired by this thoughts. Great man. between the lines it was easy to read that Guderian was a man he likes, but was quite irritated all the while as Guderian insisted on wanting " more tanks" every time thet talked over the phone!

__________________