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Old August 9th, 2002, 08:14 AM
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Should Truman have modified his demands for unconditional surrender?
Admiral Leahy and Secretary of War Stimson both recommended adding the clause: that while the United States demanded a "peacefully inclined government," they would "not exclude a constitutional monarchy under [Japan's] present dynasty." Truman ignored this advice and omitted the subject of the Emperor in the Potsdam Declaration. Japan's surrender was accepted on 14 August, with the provision that the Emperor would remain.
In hindsight, it appears that much of the military was in favor of adding this provision if it would have meant a Japanese surrender; while politicians, such as Truman, were insistant on an unconditional surrender.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 10:42 AM
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It just goes to show that the more politicians involve themselves in war, the more it gets screwed up. A lot of lives, especially non-combatant lives could have been saved. What a waste.

In summary, yes, he should have modified his demands.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 04:01 PM
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Truman was concerned primarily with public opinion on this matter. (Rufus E. Miles, "Hiroshima: The Strange Myth of Half a Million Lives Saved." International Security, Vol. X, No. 2. (Fall 1985), 124-125)
One wonders if Truman is thinking about ending the war with this comment, or simply appearing soft in front of the American people. Personally, I do not believe that the American public would have supported the dropping of the bombs had they known the war could have been ended by ammending the surrender terms in July.
Thanks for the comment, dasreich.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 06:20 PM
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Well, Truman wanted to avoid an invasion which had costed millions of deads of both sides... And I think that is reasonable. But the slaughterness caused to civilians by the bombardments, not only with the A bombs, but with conventional bombing is an insanity. If they wanted to crush Japan's war production, they did. If they wanted to destroy military concentrations, they didn't and if they wanted to crush the morale of the Japanesse, they weren't not even close to it!

But what influentieated a lot in Japan's surrender was the menace of a Soviet invasion, because they knew that they could have stopped the Americans, but not the Soviets. And the butchery would have been inmense. The emperor just did not want more suffering for his people and nation, no invasion and no more bombings. The military obeyed.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 06:37 PM
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Herr General,
I was careful not to phrase the question along the typical lines of: "A-Bomb OR Invasion," as this is a discussion which, I'm sure, has been batted around this forum before.
The argument is similar somewhat to the Dresden discussion we had earlier, in that, with the war essentially won, the politicians stepped in and assumed the role of military leaders in order to satisfy their own agendas.
Peace negotiations had been going on for weeks prior to August, and the American military knew this issue was the only stumbling block interfering with the Japanese surrender.
Remember, too, that the American economy took a nosedive for a few years right after the war (as we knew it would.) We had spent 2 billion dollars on the Manhattan Project--an expense which might have appeared wasteful to the American public if the war was won without use of the bombs. These are big issues for American politicians when election time starts rolling around.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 06:54 PM
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Very well, Templar! That thing about the 2.000.000.000 dollars was a very important influence for president Truman, also he did not like the idea of a divided, communist Japan...

Beside, the Japanesse were ready to negotiete, but they asked for too much, four things essentially:

- To keep the emperor.
- To disarm the army by itslef
- To judge the war criminals by themselves
- And damned my memory. I cannot remember the fourth one...
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Old August 9th, 2002, 07:10 PM
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Herr General,

You might find this interesting:

UNITED STATES STRATEGIC BOMBING SURVEY
SUMMARY REPORT

(Pacific War)

WASHINGTON, D.C.
1 JULY 1946

Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.
pg 26
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Old August 9th, 2002, 07:24 PM
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Mmmrrr... Don't know what to say...
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Old August 9th, 2002, 09:42 PM
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Well... perhaps we might be able to draw from these experiences and put the events of today in historical context. Continuing from dasreich's comment (which I accept,) should we be concerned that America's "War on Terrorism" is being conducted almost entirely by politicians?
All this talk about Iraq: is this information (re: Iraq's threat to the world) coming from hard, cold military analysis, or from politicians and their spooks?
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Old August 10th, 2002, 03:14 AM
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I fell asleep here:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Old August 10th, 2002, 04:48 PM
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Yep... pretty lonely here on this thread.
I think I can hear my echo:
HELLO...hello... hello...hello
Probably should have asked about the pressurized system on the B-29 or what types of high-altitude fighters the Japanese had in 1945.
OK... let me rephrase the question:
When they dropped the bomb on Nagasaki, how far along was the U.S. airforce in testing their captured Me-262s?
.
That's better.
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Old August 16th, 2002, 01:28 AM
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No need of making us seeming like stupids who care only about tactics.

Wars are lead by politicians, indeed. And they are the ones who make wars horrible. Because they just say: "do this, do that" How? They don't know, but they want the job done. At least Hitler tried to help and said how. Althought that turned to be bad the 80% of the time...
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