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[ 18. December 2002, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Timo ]

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

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[ 18. December 2002, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Timo ]

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

Thnks Timo. Hardly ever heard anything about these battles. Greatly overlooked. Good to read about the egrman perspective. Guess I have to pay the museum there another visit...

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

(banner by Otto)
www.basher82.nl

Its worth a visit Stevin. They're trying to get their Panther back to running order. And their Panther was from Panzer-Brigade 107. When they started work on it they were surprised to find there was hardly any wear and tear and that all parts were well greased. But actually it is not that surprising. The Panzer left the factory only few months before it was abandonded in Holland. Hardly time for wear and tear.

Cheers,
Timo

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

I was there about...wow, 15 years ago. I remember the spitfire and the mitchell they have there. And the tanks! Will go soon again.

What (Dutch) books can you recommend about this battle?

__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

(banner by Otto)
www.basher82.nl

As always, VERY well written Timo--and I am always interested in what you post. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Agreed- great account there Timo. On one of the topics I'm very interested in, your account highlights some of the logistical difficulties faced by the germans by this time, namely lack of fuel.
Suprising also that a 57mm AT gun knocked out that Panther on the first round- great shot! As much as we love to compare many of these weapons, that clearly demonstrates how much luck was also involved.

kudos!

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Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Thanks all for the kind words. But please keep in mind that its a patchwork of available info from BA-MA documents and available books, plus some great research done by Dr. Niehorster. And offcourse I must thank Piet Duits for providing the KstN scedules for the 1944 Panzer-Brigade.

As this history is typical for the lack of success of the 1944 Panzer-Brigaden, perhaps this is a good start for a discussion about them? They were basically sized down Panzer-Divisionen and given the the number of Panthers, Jagdpanzers and SPW's they were very well equipped. But they suffered very much from lack of artillery and, as mentioned in the text, from lack of repair facilities.

Any thoughts on this?

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

Hi Timo,

Well, I haven't a sensible addition to this thread except that I visited Overloon yesterday and found the panther you mentioned. Pity it was hardly recognizable as such. Will be in a few years. Got myself a nice video though.

Question (In the hope that I am not hijacking this thread but it is related):

In the park I saw a Sherman that was disabled by (I guess) feindly fire. I mean enemy fire. But instead of (or several) rather big holes were you can look through en pook your arm through, there was a series of little holes in an almost horizontal line. Big enough to poke a finger through. There were about a dozen of them. Not all on the same line, but still. As this was the only visible damage to the tank, I wonder what kind of anti-tank weapon might have been responsible for the demise of this tank?

Any ideas?

[ 08 September 2002, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

(banner by Otto)
www.basher82.nl

Just a wild guess but, you mentioned several fingerlike holes, I would bet that those were from an Antitank rifle? Ill ask my friend ex-Platoon Sergeant Vahaly what he thinks on that when I see him later tonight.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.