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| WWII General Open WW2 discussion |

November 27th, 2002, 11:46 PM
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A thought just occured to me when reviewing a particular college's information, what is the significance of the German Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds on their Knight's Crosses? I have heard of Oak Leaves for bravery but do not know the story behind it, or why those particular additions were chosen for add-on awards for the Knights Cross.
Can anyone fill me in as to why and how this came to be? I am very eager to know this as I have never given it much thought. Thanks!
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'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
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November 28th, 2002, 02:15 AM
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They were like repeat awards of the Knights Cross.
First you got the Knight Cross then
Oak Leaves
Swords
Diamonds
Golden Oak Leaves (Rudel)
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David

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November 30th, 2002, 03:28 AM
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I think what he means is why choose the oakleaves, swords and diamonds as add-ons???
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"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett
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November 30th, 2002, 07:49 AM
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Duh!
Well the Oaks are one of Germanys national symbols. The swords are just a obivious choice and the diamonds, well we all want those in medal, don't we!
I may be wrong, but I tried.
[img]tongue.gif[/img]
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David

When you go home
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We gave our today.
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December 1st, 2002, 02:56 PM
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Kenraali 
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That would be interesting to know if someone has the info!
Something on the history on upgrades:
As it was first conceived, the Iron Cross had only three grades: 2nd class, 1st class, and Grand Cross, and it remained thus until the Second World War. During the war Hitler, who had won the 1st and 2nd class Iron Cross in World War I, added five additional grades, mostly as a morale booster. As a result, by the end of the war there were eight grades to the award.
Hitler instituted the next successive grade of the Knights Cross. The Oak Leaves and Swords (Eichenlaub und Schwertern), authorized on July 15th 1941, were created as a further incentive to the Legions of men now moving East. The criteria for the Swords followed the same pattern as the Oak Leaves. Individuals presented with this award represented the best fighting men Germany had to offer. Members of the Heer and SS needed to have the most impressive portfolio in order to be considered, not only bravery but also combat and leadership skills were needed to rise above the rest and be recognized with the Swords. Lufftwaffe personnel followed the same points system as in the preceding classes, with only the most experienced aces reaching the points required. The first recipient of the award was the famous Lufftwaffe officer Oberstleutnant Adolf Gallant, who received the Clasp on June 21st 1941 after attaining his 69th air victory in the west (before the award was even officially instituted). Only the most experienced U-boat aces are found in the Swords winner list. One of them is Freggattenkapitan Erich Topp, who received the Swords on the 17th of August 1942. Up to that point he had sunk over 243,000 tons of allied shipping.
A total of 159 Oak Leaves with Swords were presented during the war, a number that reflects the high standards required to achieve the Swords and the exclusiveness of the award. Only one foreign Officer was awarded the Oak Leaves and Swords, Japanese Grand Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, who was presented with the awards posthumously in 1943.
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20Iron%20Cross
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron...rds/swords.htm
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December 2nd, 2002, 10:31 PM
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Thanks for the history Kai. You learn something new every time you visit here!
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'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
- Kurt Meyer, after his loyal comrade Heinz Schrott was killed by perfidious French partisans while wounded in a street.
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February 28th, 2003, 06:53 PM
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Kenraali 
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Seek and you shall find..or something like that?!
I think I´ve found a piece of the puzzle?
On Pour le Merite :
Following the death of his wife, Queen Louise, Frederick determined to create the 'Oakleaves' in her honour.
That´s just one piece but still!

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February 28th, 2003, 08:57 PM
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Ace
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Indeed, the famous "Odre pour le Mérite", the highest military Prussian award since the 1860s, I think had a higher grade, which was the "Odre pour le Mérite" with Oakleaves. I have only seen Kaiser Wilhelm II and field marshal Helmuth Graf von Moltke with them. Really impressive medal!
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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars
"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun
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February 28th, 2003, 09:08 PM
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No, I think the PLM is even elder. Friedrich I of Prussia stablished it in the 1667! Also, there was a Großkreuz version of it!
Check these sites:
http://www.pourlemerite.org/
http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/kaiserre...olitik/merite/

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars
"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun
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July 24th, 2008, 01:27 PM
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Kenraali 
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Re: Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds, etc.
During World War I the Pour Le Merite or PLM was the highest award for valor. The problem with the PLM is that it could only be awarded to officers. Adolf Hitler, an enlisted man in World War I, decided to change that when he became Chancellor and then Fuehrer of Germany. When he launched Germany into a second world war just twenty-one years later, he decided to have a decoration that would bridge the gap between the Iron Cross 1st Class and the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross. In addition he wanted a decoration that could be awarded regardless of rank. Out of this debacle the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross was born.
During World War Two 1,676 NCO's and enlisted men won this award.
A misconception is that the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross was awarded more to Generals than any other rank. This of course is farthest from the truth. Only 6.9% of the German Generals received this award. Or simply put, 502 German Generals received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.
The Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross
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July 24th, 2008, 03:49 PM
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Re: Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds, etc.
Interesting. Now I thought that the Knight's Cross was awarded for bravery. So why was it awarded to the likes of Keitel who never came close to the battlefield? Was it also awarded on the basis of some kind of achievement? If so, then again, why the likes of Keitel? Hee Hee. 
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