Axis

Members: 5,129
Threads: 16,656
Posts: 206,658
Online: 129

Newest Member:
General92

 
 
 
Go Back   World War II Forums > General Discussion > WWII General
Register FAQ Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


WWII General Open WW2 discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old November 27th, 2002, 11:46 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Muncie, IN
Posts: 104
Gibson is an unknown quantity at this point
A thought just occured to me when reviewing a particular college's information, what is the significance of the German Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds on their Knight's Crosses? I have heard of Oak Leaves for bravery but do not know the story behind it, or why those particular additions were chosen for add-on awards for the Knights Cross.

Can anyone fill me in as to why and how this came to be? I am very eager to know this as I have never given it much thought. Thanks!
__________________
'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
- Kurt Meyer, after his loyal comrade Heinz Schrott was killed by perfidious French partisans while wounded in a street.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old November 28th, 2002, 02:15 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 236
Kiwi Ace is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

They were like repeat awards of the Knights Cross.

First you got the Knight Cross then

Oak Leaves
Swords
Diamonds
Golden Oak Leaves (Rudel)
__________________
David

When you go home
Tell them of us, and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2002, 03:28 AM
Panzerknacker's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,531
Panzerknacker is an unknown quantity at this point
I think what he means is why choose the oakleaves, swords and diamonds as add-ons???
__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2002, 07:49 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 236
Kiwi Ace is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Duh!


Well the Oaks are one of Germanys national symbols. The swords are just a obivious choice and the diamonds, well we all want those in medal, don't we!

I may be wrong, but I tried.
[img]tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
David

When you go home
Tell them of us, and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old December 1st, 2002, 02:56 PM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 14,005
Kai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really nice
Post

That would be interesting to know if someone has the info!

Something on the history on upgrades:

As it was first conceived, the Iron Cross had only three grades: 2nd class, 1st class, and Grand Cross, and it remained thus until the Second World War. During the war Hitler, who had won the 1st and 2nd class Iron Cross in World War I, added five additional grades, mostly as a morale booster. As a result, by the end of the war there were eight grades to the award.

Hitler instituted the next successive grade of the Knights Cross. The Oak Leaves and Swords (Eichenlaub und Schwertern), authorized on July 15th 1941, were created as a further incentive to the Legions of men now moving East. The criteria for the Swords followed the same pattern as the Oak Leaves. Individuals presented with this award represented the best fighting men Germany had to offer. Members of the Heer and SS needed to have the most impressive portfolio in order to be considered, not only bravery but also combat and leadership skills were needed to rise above the rest and be recognized with the Swords. Lufftwaffe personnel followed the same points system as in the preceding classes, with only the most experienced aces reaching the points required. The first recipient of the award was the famous Lufftwaffe officer Oberstleutnant Adolf Gallant, who received the Clasp on June 21st 1941 after attaining his 69th air victory in the west (before the award was even officially instituted). Only the most experienced U-boat aces are found in the Swords winner list. One of them is Freggattenkapitan Erich Topp, who received the Swords on the 17th of August 1942. Up to that point he had sunk over 243,000 tons of allied shipping.

A total of 159 Oak Leaves with Swords were presented during the war, a number that reflects the high standards required to achieve the Swords and the exclusiveness of the award. Only one foreign Officer was awarded the Oak Leaves and Swords, Japanese Grand Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, who was presented with the awards posthumously in 1943.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20Iron%20Cross

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron...rds/swords.htm
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old December 2nd, 2002, 10:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Muncie, IN
Posts: 104
Gibson is an unknown quantity at this point
Thanks for the history Kai. You learn something new every time you visit here!
__________________
'The "glorious" fight of the so-called partisans was nothing more then a mean, common murder.'
- Kurt Meyer, after his loyal comrade Heinz Schrott was killed by perfidious French partisans while wounded in a street.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2003, 06:53 PM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 14,005
Kai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really nice
Post

Seek and you shall find..or something like that?!

I think I´ve found a piece of the puzzle?

On Pour le Merite :

Following the death of his wife, Queen Louise, Frederick determined to create the 'Oakleaves' in her honour.

That´s just one piece but still!

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2003, 08:57 PM
Friedrich's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Citizen of the world, though quite misantropic!
Posts: 6,393
Friedrich will become famous soon enough
Indeed, the famous "Odre pour le Mérite", the highest military Prussian award since the 1860s, I think had a higher grade, which was the "Odre pour le Mérite" with Oakleaves. I have only seen Kaiser Wilhelm II and field marshal Helmuth Graf von Moltke with them. Really impressive medal!
__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2003, 09:08 PM
Friedrich's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Citizen of the world, though quite misantropic!
Posts: 6,393
Friedrich will become famous soon enough
No, I think the PLM is even elder. Friedrich I of Prussia stablished it in the 1667! Also, there was a Großkreuz version of it!

Check these sites:

http://www.pourlemerite.org/

http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/kaiserre...olitik/merite/

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old July 24th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 14,005
Kai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really niceKai-Petri is just really nice
Default Re: Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds, etc.

During World War I the Pour Le Merite or PLM was the highest award for valor. The problem with the PLM is that it could only be awarded to officers. Adolf Hitler, an enlisted man in World War I, decided to change that when he became Chancellor and then Fuehrer of Germany. When he launched Germany into a second world war just twenty-one years later, he decided to have a decoration that would bridge the gap between the Iron Cross 1st Class and the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross. In addition he wanted a decoration that could be awarded regardless of rank. Out of this debacle the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross was born.

During World War Two 1,676 NCO's and enlisted men won this award.

A misconception is that the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross was awarded more to Generals than any other rank. This of course is farthest from the truth. Only 6.9% of the German Generals received this award. Or simply put, 502 German Generals received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.

The Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old July 24th, 2008, 03:49 PM
PzJgr's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Texas Ambassador to Ohio
Posts: 4,300
PzJgr is just really nicePzJgr is just really nicePzJgr is just really nicePzJgr is just really nicePzJgr is just really nicePzJgr is just really nice
Default Re: Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds, etc.

Interesting. Now I thought that the Knight's Cross was awarded for bravery. So why was it awarded to the likes of Keitel who never came close to the battlefield? Was it also awarded on the basis of some kind of achievement? If so, then again, why the likes of Keitel? Hee Hee.
__________________

American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Google
 

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2000 - 2007, the World War II Network, all rights reserved.Ad Management by RedTyger

Allies