I would like to hear opinions on what I believe to be one of great strategic moves of World War Two. I refer to the secret transfer of the bulk of 8th Army assets from the Adriatic to the Cassino area during May, 1943.

At the time, 25th Army Tank Brigade (of which the North Irish Horse in which I served) was attached to 1st Canadian Infantry Corps. The subsequent breaking of the Hitler Line, on 23rd May, could well have brought the war in Italy to a swift conclusion if General Truscott had been allowed to trap Vietinghoff's 10th Army as originally planned.

It is of great personal pride that my Regiment, along with 51 RTR and 142 RAC, were honoured by General G.C.Vokes, DSO when he intimated that he would be pleased if all ranks of 25 ATB would wear a Maple Leaf emblem in recognition of the support given to 1 Canadian Infantry Brigade.

Hello Gerry, welcome to the forum (from another new boy [img]smile.gif[/img] ).

Whatever the outcome, if Mark Clark had followed orders in the spring of ‘44, I also believe it would have had a greater effect on the war. Alexander saw the potential and accordingly ordered the breakout from the Anzio beachhead north east to Cisterna and cut route 7 to Rome, then on through the Lepini mountains to Cori and Valmontone and cut route 6 to Rome. Route 6 being the main route from Cassino to Rome through the Liri Valley, the prime route of retreat.

Clark had no intention of carrying out that plan and made only a token effort towards those ends. All along he want to be the first in Rome, an objective of minor strategic importance, albeit at the expense of allowing the Germans to escape along route 6.

(location map from beachhead


(terrain map)


No.9

[ 30. January 2003, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: No.9 ]

Hey Gary:
A while ago I was at the museum of the Regiments in Calgary and a tour guide was a vetren from the PPCLI and he was along in the breaking of the hitler like, you guys broke it in like 24 hours right? Did you work with Canadians and if so do you know what battalion?

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Go-Flames-Go

Thank you for the welcome. The maps show the potential for the destruction of the 10th Army!

This should be of interest:

"The egocentrism of the 5th Army Commander, whose decision allowed so many of the enemy to escape and fight another day, is recorded by Eric Sevareid, a well-respected American war correspondent, when the 1st Special Service Force was held up on the outskirts of Rome, during the early afternoon of 4 July. Major General Geoffrey Keyes, II Corps Commander, arrived in a jeep and challenged Brigadier General Robert Frederick, 1st Special Force commander: "General Frederick, what's holding you up here?"
"The Germans, sir," Frederick replied.

"How long will it take you to get across the city limits?" Keyes asked.

"The rest of the day. There are a couple of SP guns up there."

"That will not do. General Clark must be across the city limits by four o'clock."

"Why?"

"Because he has to have his photograph taken." Keyes said. Frederick mulled that over briefly and replied, "Tell the general to give me an hour."

After men of the 1st Special Service Force had silenced the guns, the way was clear for 5th Army commander to have his picture taken in the Holy City. His brief moment of glory was quickly overshadowed as, two days later, the events of D-Day unfolded."

Hello Brad,

At 06.00, following a fifteen minute barrage by guns of the Royal Canadian Artillery, the attack went in. Just over ten hours later the Hitler Line was broken.

Of the North Irish Horse,'A' Squadron supported the Princess Pats, 'B' Squadron (mine) the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada. For a listing of who supported whom in Operations Diadem and Chesterfield see:
http://www.geocities.com/vqpvqp/nih/...can1corps.html

Gerry - I find Clark an arrogant moron wholly unfit for the duties assigned him. I still cannot fully decide if he was also an Anglophobe, though currently I’d probably say he was like that to everyone he didn’t kiss-up to. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Before he went out in the Med, he was given a special intelligence briefing by Menzies himself (head of British Intelligence). Instead of shutting his mouth and opening his ears, he practically did everything apart from pick his nose and break wind, which doesn’t appear to have been the case or not recorded if it was. He ended up walking out to see a man about a dog. He certainly missed out on the day common courtesy was dispensed.

He screwed up at Salerno, bobbing about on a boat so far offshore he couldn’t get to grips which the fowl-up of his landing plan, he screwed-up on the Garigliano for which the 36th Texas wanted him crucified, he flunked Cassino, he flunked Anzio and then to have something to write home about he walked into Rome and let the German Army escape! (Sorry, there’s no icon for ‘wanker’ so please use your imagination)

One time he didn’t have his own way when he should have dug his heels in, was Freyburg’s demand to have the Cassino monastery destroyed. He was almost there, or so he claims, but he bottled it?

He was really narked when they squashed him on the west coast and moved the 8th over to sort Cassino. He though they should put the men under his command – rightly no one was buying that. Again he used to throw a wobbler every time Alexander spoke to his officers.

Re Rome, when I read Clark’s book ‘Calculated Risk’, I was looking forward to finding out what occurred, (from a tactical point), that made him disobey a sound military order? I was astounded to find there was no significant tactical reason, he never intended any other action and is arrogant enough to say so!!!

His ‘objections’ basically come to three things. 1) The road through the Lepini was not suitable, (it was typical of the region and the same if not better than the roads used all around Cassino?). 2) This would still leave the Germans holding the high ground of the Alban Hills, (the Germans were still in the Alban Hills when Clark approached Rome as he didn’t make a priority of removing them before he did so – they waited till their forces were back from Cassino then left). 3) Page 332, ”We not only wanted the honour of capturing Rome, but we felt that we had deserved it;” - [‘does ‘we’ include y’all Clark?’ – I just though I’d ask that on behalf of the 36th Texas], - “My own feeling was that nothing was going to stop us on our push towards the Italian capital. Not only did we intend to become the first army in fifteen centuries to seize Rome from the south, but we intended to see that the people back home knew that is was the Fifth Army that did the job.” – [‘dang me boy, there y'all go with that ‘we’ again.’]

In all I find it quite pathetic.

No.9

[ 02. February 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: No.9 ]

I must say that I tend to agree with you, No.9 - in fact, I think Clark was one of my nominations under the 'Worst General of WWII' thread some while back.

I haven't yet the biography of Clark by, I think, Blumenson (?) - but most things I've read paint a picture of Clark as an arrogant publicity-seeker and having a total antipathy toward all things British.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

USS Anzio

The Motto:

STAND AND FIGHT (the order by Lieutenant General Clark to the embattled Allies at Anzio).


http://navysite.de/cg/cg68.html

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Martin - I take it you're not busting a gut to buy 'Mark Clark: The Last of the Great World War II Commanders. New York: Congdon & Weed, 1984.'.

No.9

Errm...has it found a UK publisher ?

Must be in the same series as 'Montgomery: Master Of Diplomacy & Tact ' and ' Goering : A Genius For Air Strategy '......

[ 02. February 2003, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Absolutely! Just like; Hitler, master painter.

I ask you, who cares if he could get six ceilings out of one litre of emulsion?

No.9