Comparing Airborne Operations

TheRedBaron · #1 (**permalink**) March 10th, 2003, 12:58 PM

For my PhD I am preparing comparative case studies of British and German airborne operations which have certain similar pararells. I intend to compare...

Crete with Arnhem

Holland with D-Day

and possibly

Gran Sasso with Bruneval

Can anyone else think of any other comparative operations?

Do you think that these operations are listed with an adequate comparison?

I am comparing Crete with Arnhem as both were largely fought by just airborne troops and were 'behind enemy lines'. With Holland the capture of the bridges bears similarities to the capture of Pegasus bridge and the Orne road bridge, while a shaky comparison can be made between Eben Emael and Merville Battery. Gran Sasso is compared with Bruneval as both are the employment of Airborne troops to steal a specific object from a enemy force.

Who do you think performed better in these similar operations?

Are the operations as similar as first impressions make out?

In terms of aerial delivery which combatant was more successful?

It is obvious that the German operations of the early war years stimulated Allied thought on the subject of Airborne troops but to what extent? By comparing these at first similar operations we should be able to gauge the level of influence that the German operations had and the eventual better perfomer in airborne operations.

I would be interested in hearing other peoples views on this and perhaps starting some debate on the comparative perfomance of British and German airborne forces. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Jet · #2 (**permalink**) March 10th, 2003, 07:09 PM

I would go with the Germans as their drops were quite smaller in comparision to the British airbourne jumps. Also, if you look at Crete where most of the Germans were killed a few moments after hitting the ground they managed to recover quickly and took the island in a few weeks.
The Germans had a very successful record in airborne jumps at the beginning of the war.

But if you look at Pegasus bridge the bridge was held with very small fatalities and most of the jumps on D-Day by the British were very successful.

Unfortunately looking at Arnhem (which was a disaster) the Germans didn't lose quite so many men in Crete as the Allies did in Arnhem.

Jet

Jet

Friedrich · #3 (**permalink**) March 14th, 2003, 01:15 AM

OK, RedBaron, here are my thoughts:

Crete and Arnhem had the lack of a very important thing in every airborne operation: surprise. However, both sides performed extremely well in both battles. The British managed to inflict a huge number of casualties to the Germans in Crete, shooting down many, many aeroplaned fully-loaded with troops and so on... The Germans could not do that at Arnhem. It was practically, a perfect jump. But then, the British at Crete, having nearly everything on their side (artillery, armoured and numerical supperiority) could not handle the light guns of the German paratroopers. This didn't happen at Arnhem. And even in Einhoven, where the British tanks managed to get there, they were beaten... And I think, most important of all, Crete was a tremendous victory, won against the most difficult circumstances just because good leadership and the training and valour of the men. At Arnhem, bad leadership brought disaster, it didn't matter the outstanding courage of the men involved...

And I think Holland and the D-day are very similar. In both cases, they achieved their objectives, even if there were some little failures with not so many casualties and held the terrain for the ground troops.

De Vlaamse Leeuw · #4 (**permalink**) March 14th, 2003, 08:51 PM

The rescue of Mussolini from San Grasso was the work of Otto Skorzeny. He was one of the favourites Hitler had.

Some website about this operation:
http://www.forces70.freeserve.co.uk/...ger/Rescue.htm

http://www.forces70.freeserve.co.uk/...s/skorzeny.htm

http://www.go2war2.nl/personen/dui_s...y/artikel2.htm

http://www.worldwar.nl/persons/Skorz...o_skorzeny.htm

About Bruneval, do you mean this:
http://www.combinedops.com/Bruneval.htm

http://www.standto.com/qorbruneval.html

http://chide.bournemouth.ac.uk/Oral_...eval_raid.html

TheRedBaron · #5 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2003, 03:56 PM

Yup the operation to steal german radar, it seems to equate nicely with rescuing Mussolini...

Mahross · #6 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2003, 04:21 PM

Here are a couple of sites on crete:
http://www.crete-1941.org.uk/
http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/crete.htm
the second one gives a good OOB for the german forces involved.

TheRedBaron · #7 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 02:37 PM

Cheers matey...

Mahross · #8 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 02:42 PM

Not a prob i'll keep looking for more . . .

TheRedBaron · #9 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 02:55 PM

Do you agree with my comparisons? They seem the most likely to compare. Crete equates nicely to Arnhem but the numbers are higher in Arnhem but the percentage of losses is quite similar but again higher on the British side. Holland 1940 compares well to D-Day with the capture of bridges and the destruction of Merville and Eben Emael but I think the Germans have the edge on fort storming in this case...

Mahross · #10 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 02:57 PM

yeah i agree, they are all good comparison. though when comparing holland and D-day i would concentrate on the coup de main aspect of the d-day operations.

TheRedBaron · #11 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 03:02 PM

Yes that seems the best direct comparison to make of them all really. The use of gliders and roughly the same numbers of men and the same style of targets. Have to say the British got theirs intact and the Germans only got two out of three, but then they went in in daylight which says alot for our glider pilots. That is something i need to find out is the role of german glider pilots after landing... hmmm a new topic i believe...

Mahross · #12 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 03:06 PM

Hmm beaten you to the punch, a couple of sites on german glider operations:
http://www.forces70.freeserve.co.uk/...0Countries.htm
http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/belgium.htm

De Vlaamse Leeuw · #13 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 03:39 PM

Very interesting sites Mahross.

Mahross · #14 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 03:40 PM

Thanks erwin.
Redbaron try this for a personal perspective on the defence of crete.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/crete/wildey.htm

TheRedBaron · #15 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 03:49 PM

Nice find mahross... If im marking your normandy essay I will be very kind!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Mahross · #16 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 03:52 PM

excellent this is good to know. my student no. is . . . LOL

TheRedBaron · #17 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 04:01 PM

LOL!!! But if you need any help, just give us a bell. Will lend you my Journal that I did when I went to Normandy... it will give you an idea of what they want... Plus I got an A14!!!

Mahross · #18 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 04:06 PM

This is shall borrow. Cheers mate.

Mahross · #19 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 04:22 PM

Try this for Gran Sasso:
http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/gransasso.htm
this is interesting a german airborne operation launched against the island of elba:
http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/elba.htm

De Vlaamse Leeuw · #20 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2003, 06:02 PM

This is all very interesting information.