I have visited many European WW1 and WW2 Battlefields but this year for the first time i'm going to the Eastern Front,something i have wanted to do for many years.
Has anybody been to the Ostfront before??I would be interested to hear of anyone's experiences.
Would also like to hear of anyone's views on Battlefield visits in general.

Paul [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Nikto ne Zabyt . Nichto ne Zabyto.

Let no one forget . Let nothing be forgotten.

Paul :

The other day I was checking my search engines for the Battle of Seelow Heights and found a neat little item covering this chaps visit where I think he had a relative serve in those last hectic days. Some nice small pics on the page and a simple overview of the battle and the area today. sorry cannot give you the url but it should be easily found on your engines by just typing in Seelow Heights.......if you are interested.
Now my info is second hand but a very dear friend here in Grants Pass, served in the 1st Infantry Division in ost Preussia in 1945. I have seen his many pics of his last two visits to the area around Insteburg/Königsberg and the place is a total waste. The old buildings have all been torn down, the trees uprooted and everything replaced by the Old Leninist style of buidlings or scrapped clean. The pics of the fields are now farm lands though it did look as though there were some old burnt out wrekcs of vehicles still left.....trucks, but could not tell whether they were Soviet or German. The marshes are still there and will never go away but the trees have been shattered and many new, bushy undergrowth has taken over.
Not sure if this is much help, but i envy your possibilites as the Ost front is where I would like to travel too someday, Prussia as this is where my wife's family originated as well. You of course maybe most interested in the areas of the once known Russia though.

E

Hallo! I have visited several battle filds. Many of them are a few streets away... Example: the Remagen bridge. I was born in Cologne, so I know it very well. I have been to Berlin, the Reichstag and the old chancellory (?), I have been to the Nuremberg's Stadium. I have visited the remaining positions of the Sigfried line and the forts in Lieje, Belgium. The old fort Eben Emaël. My mother was born in Strasburg, so I know France too. I have visited Sedan, Verdun, the river Somme, Compiègne, the remaining positions of the Maginot line, Normandy, Calais, Boulogne und Dunkirk. I have been to Prague also and Dresden (where my grandfather was born) and a few other places... Four years ago, when my grandmother died and my grandfather found himself alone after 65 years of marriage travelled around Europe, to reconciliate with his past... He even visited the famous city of Volgograd, Russia. (Do I have to say how was it named in WW2?), etc. he visited also the old battle fields of Spain: Sevilla, Granada, Guernica and madrid of course, where he stayed to live with us...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Battlefield visits
.. can be addictive ! To be serious, my understanding of any battle is immensely clarified by walking the battlefield.
I, too, envy you the opportunity of visiting the eastern front.
I've walked the Somme and Ypres from WWI, with Arnhem ( in depth ), the Ardennes, Normandy, Berlin from WWII plus too many old airfields to count. For some reason, I never seem to get to Remagen !
I guess 'atmosphere' affects us all in different ways but I always feel a powerful sense of foreboding at Moissy Ford in the Falaise Gap. Anyone else have a place of particular interest ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Great stuff you told me of your visit Paul--I cant wait to see a few pics. Just imagine a man who was lost in the desert without water nor shade nor food for a long period of time. Well--when he sees a Bennegans at an Oasis, with an all you can eat and drink free sign, and cool airconditioner--well--thats how I feel on your visit. I would love to see those vehicles still out there. Olllllll llllllllll lllllllllll lllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllll (thats the sound of me drooling.)

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I believed that this could be a boring country without much History but it is not. Youu can also find a lot of battle fields around here.

Like two hours from here you can find "Loreto y Guadalupe" fort where Napoleon III's army was defeated by a smaller and worse equipped Mexican army, leaded by General Ignacio Zaragoza on May 5th 1865.

There is Mexico's city centre where you can still look at bullet holes on old buildings' walls, made during 1910s in the Revolution.

But the more interesting are battle fields like "Churubusco's bridge", "Molino del Rey" and the castle of Chapultepec. All, scenaries of great battles during USA-Mexico's war in 1847. The castle is beautiful and now it is a Museum where a lot of reliques are kept. But in 1847 it was a military academy. So, when General Zachery Taylor's and Winfield C. Scott's troops were advancing, the only remaining necessary thing for victory was to take the castle, because it is a high and strong point and some weapons were kept there. So, 800 cadets aged 13-18 defended the castle until the last one fell on September 13th 1847.

There is also the battle of Churubusco's bridge, where USA's troops surrounded General José María Anaya's army and forced it to surrender. When the American commander asked for the remaining ammunition, General Anaya answered:"If there were ammunition left, your men wouldn't be here".

Very interesting country, this...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Friedrich,

Are you familiar with the battle of Camerone? Is it the same as "Loreto y Guadalupe"? I don't think so, although it is the same timeframe and of course, area. I think Camerone might be before "Guadalupe" Not sure though. I recently read a book named CAMERONE by Jim Ryan. It is where in 186? a company of the French Foreign Legion was butchered by the Mexican forces. Napolean III had it in his mind that while the the US North and South were slogging it out, he would invade Mexico and the US. Bad choice. Very interesting read. Last stand at the Hycianda and stuff. Amazing detail in the book. the wooden hand of the unit's commander is every year paraded around in a festival commemorating the battle. This festival is in France, at the Foreign Legion barracks.

[ 25 June 2002, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

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www.basher82.nl

Hallo, Stevin!

No, I do not think that it is the same battle, actually the battle on may 5th is called "Battle of Puebla", because it happened near the homonimous city. And there a lots of battles in which the French were actually slaughtered, mostly minor battles. The battle of Puebla is remembered because it was a big battle. Around 15.000 French against 8.000 Mexican regular troops and 2.000 Zacapoaxtlan peasants. It was an open field battle, one of very few. Because Mexicans used guerrilla warfare, because they were mostly al the time, outnumbered and overwhelmed on weapons. But yeah... Mexicans kind of behaved like the Russinas in 1940s, in a very savage way. There was a little battle where general Porfirio Díaz (he would be president later, for over 30 years...) killed two hundred French soldiers while they were bathing in a river...

But I will make some research about that battle and post it later, Stevin.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

In case its not well known. The battle of Camerone was fought between the Mexican Army and a Companir of Frainch Forigh Legionnaires. The Frainch were ambushed and made their way to the old buildings at Camerone where they took up positions inside and fought the attacking Mexican forces.

The Mexican Commander offered them surrender terms but the Frainch valiantly refused time and time again.

The maxicans steadily were gaining the upper hand while the Frainch had more and more dead and wounded.

The outnumbered Frainch were soon down to only about 5 living Legionnaires when they were again given the opportunity to surrender, but they again refused surrended for Belle La Fraince. Instead, the survivors fixed bayonetes and charged the Mexican Army. The charge didnt last very long as the Mexicans were sad in the fact that they had to cut these brave men down, as they very well respected these men.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Hallo, Karl!
Did't know you were keen on those kind of battles. I really was not until I moved here.

And yes, the French were actually very brave, were well equipped and had a very fine nation behind them. That's why it was the mightiest army in the world for that while. But some bad leaders doomed the operations. Mexicans fought pretty well, but their enormous courage would not have been enough to face ALL the French army. Minor victories like the ones we have mentioned were not worth it. Napoleon did not want to send more troops because of the probems in Europe, with Prussia becoming more and more powerful. He was right. Actually, he could have smashed Mexico definetely and go against USA during civil war... Very bad lanscape for USA...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Carl, you surprise me again, but then again; you don't live too far off and had a grandfather heavily commited in that theater, though not at that time...

Camerone was an amazing read. It is listed now at $57, but I didn't pay that much. Jim Ryan did a fine bit of researching. His description of the last stance at the hycianda was riveting. Amazing what he could dig up after over 100 years. Reading this gave me hope for us WW2 researchers.

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

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www.basher82.nl

Thank you Friedrich--Stevin for the compliments yep you guessed it, WW2 isnt my only fascination. I used to have a fascination with the US Civil War, War of 1812, American War of Independance (the one in which we decided that we no longer wanted British Tea ((Which I might add--I do love to drink it--especially Westminster Teas)) I also had a passion for Texas History, WW1, Korean War, Crimean War, The Napoleanic Wars, The Zulu Wars, and the Franco-Prussian War. Im sure there are others but, I just cant think of them right now

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Such a wise guy you are!

I also like WWII a lot but it is not my only passion! I just simply like History and wars at all. Since Hannibal crossed the Alps with his elephants and killed 50.000 Romans in Cannas about 250 bC until the battle of Berlin. I really do not know much about the Korea war, Vietnam, so on... So don't ask me about jets and missiles... I just get interested in modern submarines, but that's all. But I just simply love Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar (which I play in his opera, by the way... [img]redface.gif[/img] ), Napoleon, Francis Drake... etc. ALL! God! History is so nice!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I got my passions with Military History even stronger because of thew magazines: Military History, Cival War, WW2, Vietnam, and Greatest Battles. With these i greatly expanded to many many other wars--not that I hadnt done so by reading every military history book in the Kingsvill Public Library System.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.