The following is an email message I got "third-hand". Has anyone else heard about this?????

Hi everyone!!

I'm not sure if anyone's heard yet but the first full scale reproduction Me-262 flew for the first time on Nov. 25th. This is great news for allied air show performers. It gives them the chance to perform against a jet!!! I'm excited about it!!

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Living History at http://oldreliable9_47.tripod.com

Yes it flew and has been grounded nearly ever since. Quie a few taxiing trials have been done on this a/c and one of our researchers was there to snap off a few hundred pics of the events.....this was a two seat trainer painted in bogus colours of jet unit JG 7 since JG 7 never had any two seaters, the pilots being given a simple 1/2 hour lesson with the trainer on the wing guiding the pilot(s) through baisc stick training....... in fact there is a training video for sale through several a/c video dealerships showing a would be pilot go through the paces in Kommando Nowotny. What a gorgeous a/c the Schwalbe is.

E

WoW!! Are there any pictures online??

Did they put in some modern engines? How fast, how high, how far does it go?

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„Solange man nicht mit dem Kopf unterm Arm rumläuft geht es doch noch!" Erwin Rommel

Andreas :

please check www.stormbirds.com

you'll probably have to do some searching on the front pages but the information is there !
Today the jet flew 30 minutes in the air with it's undercarriage down followed by a pace line a/c

E this is getting very exciting !

Exciting? I don't know about you guys but I think it's time to start saving big time!!! I'd love to have one of those in my Christmas stocking.

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"It's as if an angel were pushing you......" Gen. Galland's comment after first test flying Me-262 turbo-jet.

UTTERLY AMAZING!!!!!!!!

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„Solange man nicht mit dem Kopf unterm Arm rumläuft geht es doch noch!" Erwin Rommel

WOW!


25 NOV 02

LIFTOFF!! We are pleased to report that a rather quiet and unofficial milestone was reached today when White 1 took to the skies for a brief period during a high speed taxi test. The aircraft reached an altitude of 5 feet Above Ground Level, and was an important first step in our upcoming test flight program.

26 JUN 02

MILESTONE It is with great enthusiasm that we report passing a major benchmark in our test program. Yesterday, White 1 successfully completed it's initial power-on taxi test, marking the first time in some 55 years that an Me 262 has moved under it's own power. The taxi event coincided with an ongoing (previously scheduled) client meeting, and was also attended by Jagdverband 44 veteran Oberleutnant Franz Stigler, who had travelled from Canada to review our progress. There was certainly no shortage of smiles here on Paine Field on Tuesday afternoon!

http://www.stormbirds.com/project/general/updates.htm

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It looks like a very good reproduction and great paint job but why did they ruin the whole effect by not putting the swastika on the tail ? Seems like censorship to me but I guess they would say it's their airplane, so they can mark it as they see fit.

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

Too bad the jet is in bogus colours. JG 7 never had any two seat trainers. And even in Geschwader Kommodore Winkel's even ! Geez, why didn't they paint it in the regular trainer or recon version colours ? Doesn't really matter as the owner of the a/c can have it painted any way they want. Glad the jet is up and running though. I'd of course like it in dark grey-violet and black with FuG 218 radar aerials on the nose......sehr Kühl !
There is talk of course to get the single seaters back in the air which I for one am very excited to see and hear. Think I'll head northward once I hear of this.
Franz Stigler was the Technical Offizier of JV 44 and it appears he flew maybe 1/3 missions in weisse 3, Addi Galland's a/c.

E

Or you can buy a little bit yourself and dream....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...item=748948988

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Hmmmmmmmm....... I wonder how original; since in 1945 the parts for the Me 262 were made in underground bunkers, such as Oberammergau in the Bayern. anything is possible I suppose though, unless by chance this is from one of the 262's destroyed at Brandenburg-Briest of JG 7 ?

E

I'd really need to 'know my stuff' before bidding bigtime on something like this - I guess it could even be a Czech Avia, or something ?

Anyhow, I'm not tempted.....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I agree Martin, this could be bogus or the real thing. I would be more interested in placing a bid of 75.00 US or less for a 3cm round, but ME 262 parts always go for big monies, original or not.

E

In the April issue of Air Classics magazane they have a nice update on the 262 project. On the third test flight they had a slight setback when the landing gear did not lock in place and it collapsed on landing and ended up in a ditch. This was on Jan 17,2003. They said the damage could be repaired in six months.
Three of the five project planes have not sold so far.
An interesting side note is the article claims that swept back wings on the first 262 were because of the engines weighing more than they thought they would so they had change the wings to adjust the center of gravity. They did not know it would also help the performance until later.
I never heard this story before and can not say if it true or not.

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

I was somewhere reading the hitler once orded to rebilt me 262 in to the bomber. Later he put this order back but it was too late reich was almost defeted thats why only few me 262 saw skys.

Those are great news! [img]smile.gif[/img]
And pictures, Kai! It looks bloody amzing!!!

And Jákov: as all these guys can tell you, the Me-262 was first conceived as a bomber, upon Hitler's request. However, the plane had been originally designed as a fighter, so it was totally inadequate for a bomber. This decision only delayed its urgent production, so the plane was only able to fly until 1944, when it could have been ready by 1943, when it was needed and when it could have had a bigger effect.

However, we had a very interesting discussion about "Would it have been effective?" somewhere... we came to very nice conclusions: it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the war.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

First it would have been an excellent bomber though the Ar 234 would have been better and was !
The problem was there was not sufficient overhead Luftwaffe single fighter protection for the Me 262's upon the bombing run.

Second the Fighter version proved itself countless times but as I mentioned on another thread there were only two fighter units that were very short lived that had some high cover protection.

Jet engines require rather sophisticated alloys--one thing the Germans were particularly short of in 44/45. Poor metallurgy-not design-led to many engine failures. Might lend some credence to the "too heavy" engine theory (although, I have never heard of this.)

The useage of high altitude gliders dropped from a high altitude twin engine, a so called heavy was to be a short term replacement for the 262. A mass of these "cheap wooden attack gliders" was to be built and used on anti-bomber duties until the reworking of the engines and especailly of the wing/wing-spars and fuel lines of the Me 262 could be fixed in a more protective and either swept wing forward or swept wing rear configuration. The wooden attack gliders were only a stop gap but may have necessitated a time of 6 or more months of service, possibly a year before the new wing concepts could be operationsl. The gliders would have lighted and swooped down in mass with heavy cannon and internal, protected rocket launchers giving a lethal blast in one quick hurried attack, and hopefully be able to glide back to a suitable abandoned field to be later picked up and removed to base in covered trucks........ in essence the idea of sorts of the Me 163; running out of fuel and lightly gliding back to the airfield unhampered by Allied escort fighters......yeah right !

E

When will I learn to not posting anything about the Luftwaffe I am not sure about?

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Some interesting info:

http://gast.radio-o.at/gusen/dok/b8/b8002x.htm

Millions of tons of material were brought between 1943 and 1945 from all parts of the 3rd Reich via the railway station at Sankt Georgen an der Gusen to the construction site and the underground plant of B8 BERGKRISTALL - ESCHE 2.

The most important locations within the B8 BERGKRISTALL-ESCHE 2 network are structured according to the subsequent classification (in alphabetical order):

Me-262: Material going out for Messerschmitt GmbH:
ATTNANG-PUCHHEIM received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
BALLENSTEDT received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) and "empty boxes"
BERLIN received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
BERLIN-WEISSENSEE received "container boxes" (Behaelterkisten)
BERLIN-STAAKEN received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
BODENWOEHR received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
BRANDENBURG received fuselages (Ruempfe)
BUDWEIS (CESKE BUEJOVICE) received machine tools (Werkzeugmaschinen)
BURGAU received fuselages (Ruempfe) until Oktober 1944 and "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
CHAM received received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
DRESTEDT received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
FALLERSLEBEN received "tooling" (Werkzeug) and "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) and aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile) until July 1944
FISCHAMEND received aircraft parts (Flugzeuteile) until March 1944
FLOSSENBUERG received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) until October 1944 and machinery (Maschinen)
GRASLITZ received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
GUENZBURG received fuselages (Ruempfe) until the end of the war and "Rumpfwerk"
HAGELSTADT received fuselages (Ruempfe) and "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
HOECHST received received "empty boxes", "Behaelterkisten"
JETTINGEN received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
KAHLA received fuselages (Ruempfe)
KEFERMARKT received aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile) until July 1944
KUBOHUETTE (KUBOVA HUT) received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile), "Wannen" and "Wannenverschlaege"
LUNGITZ received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) and aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile)
LEIPHEIM received fuselages (Ruempfe) until Dezember 1944 and "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
OBERNZELL received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) and "Rumpfwerk"
OBERTRAUBLING received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
PLANKENHEIM received aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile) until June 1944
PLETTENBERG received "antennas" (Antennen), "Verschlaege"
REGENSBURG received fuselages (Ruempfe), "spare parts" (Ersatzteile), machinery (Maschinen) and "large furnaces" (Grossraumoefen)
SCHWAEBISCH HALL received fuselages (Ruempfe) until Dezember 1944 and "Rumpfwerk"
SINGEN received "aluminum scrap DEST" (Duralabfaelle DEST)
SULZDORF received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
SUNZENDORF received "boxes" (Kisten)
VILSEK received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) and "aircraft parts" (Flugzeugteile)
WELS received "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
ZARTLESDORF received aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile) until July 1944

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Me-262: Material comming in for Messerschmitt GmbH
BAYREUTH delivered work benches (Werkbaenke)
BODENWOEHR delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) until January 1945
DACHAU delivered work benches (Werkbaenke)
ESCHENLOHE delivered ... (Wehrmachtsteile), fans (Ventilatoren) and machinery (Maschinen)
FALLERSLEBEN delivered parts for fuselages (Rumpfteile)
FISCHAMEND delivered machinery (Maschinen)
FLOSSENBUERG delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) until January 1945, parts for machinery (Maschinenteile) and wings (Flaechen)
FRANZENSTHAL delivered aircraft hulls "Wannen" and "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
GRASLITZ delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile), aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile) and brass (Bleche)
GUENZBURG delivered ... (Verladeboecke)
HAGELSTADT delivered parts for machinery (Maschinenteile), machinery (Maschinen) and "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) until January 1945, water tanks (Wasserbehaelter)
INGOLSTADT delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) until Dezember 1944
KOEFERING delivered paint (Farbe) and "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
KUBOHUETTE delivered aircraft hulls "Wannen"
LUNGITZ delivered electric material (Elektromaterial), transformer (Transformatoren), containers (Behaelter), fuel tanks (Kraftstoffbehaelter), tubes (Rohre), brass (Bleche)
MAUTHAUSEN delivered tools (Werkzeuge), machinery (Maschinen) and brass (Bleche)
MITTERTEICH delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) and machinery (Maschinen)
OBERNZELL delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile), charger (Ladegeraete), tubes (Rohre) and ... (Exzenterpressen)
OBERTRAUBLING delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile), "equipment" (Geraete) and workshop equipment (Werkstatteinrichtung)
PASSAU delivered sheets (Platten)
PLETTENBERG delivered "aluminum" (Leichtmetall), aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile) and(Bohrgeruest)
PRUEFENING delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile)
RAMINGDORF delivered ... (Montagestaender)
REGENSBURG delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile), machinery (Maschinen), paint (Farbe), ... (Verlagerungsgut), ... (Betriebsmittel), work benches (Werkbaenke), ... (Fluegelwagen)
REGENSTAUF delivered aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile)
SCHWANDORF delivered cast items (Gussteile) and iron components (Eisenteile)
SULZDORF delivered aircraft parts (Flugzeugteile)
WEILHEIM delivered "aluminum" (Leichtmetall)
WELS delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) until November 1944
WENDLINGEN delivered "spare parts" (Ersatzteile) until January 1945

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B8 BERGKRISTALL - ESCHE II
Underground Plant

With more than 50.000 m2 (some 10 km tunnnel length) one of the biggest german underground installations that reached production status in late 1944. According to Allied intelligence reports, it was "one of the most modern and most complete underground plants in Germany".

Constructed within 13 months by prisoners of the KL Gusen II concentration camp within the Mauthausen-Gusen complex due to its high mortality (up to 98%), it became one of the most horrible concentration camp sites in European history (average survival period 4 months).

With Winter 1944/45 more deportations came in than lives were consumed, by construction and production. So, many died in unopend railway cars at the local station, froze to death or were killed by the many other cruelties of the KL Gusen II "extermination" camp.

According to Allied Intelligence, some 987 jet propelled planes left serial production lines. Construction of tunnel-system was nearly finished and installations operational for some 85%.

Production started in parallel to construction of the tunnel-system in Summer 1944 and reached maximum in April 1945 (some 90 jet-plane fuselages, fully equipped per