(YAY! Journalism)

What is wrong with the following story (DISCLAIMER: and I don't mean for people to look at this in a political sense, please...This thread is not meant to be a starting point for political discussion...but more on fallable journalism...but you have to spot the mistakes first).

Bomber veteran speaks out against war in Iraq

An American veteran preparing to commemorate the achievements of the US Air Force's most famous Second World War bomber says coalition forces should not have attacked Iraq.


Otto Meikus, 83, of Milton, Cambridge - a senior mechanic on one of the last American bombers to be shot down during the Second World War - said the attack on Iraq was an incursion not a war.

Mr Meikus, who was at the Imperial War Museum's aviation branch at Duxford, near Cambridge, to commemorate the final flight of the Flying Fortress Memphis Belle 60 years ago, said the threat posed by Iraq today was not comparable with the threat posed by Hitler in 1939.

He said: "I don't agree with Bush in what he is calling a war in Iraq. It was not really a war. It was an incursion," said Mr Meikus, crew chief on the Flying Fortress Jack The Ripper, which was based alongside the Memphis Belle at Bassingbourn, near Cambridge, during the Second World War.

He added: "We were threatened by Germany. They had actually invaded other countries. The two situations are not the same. I don't disagree with getting rid of Saddam Hussein but I don't think we should have done it in this way."

Mr Meikus, who was born in Madison, Wisconsin, and has lived in Cambridge for 40 years, said: "I think it is time that we didn't have war unless we are threatened ourselves.

"I don't think we should forget what happened in the Second World War and the sacrifices that people of my generation made.

"But I also cannot quite see how anniversaries of war are a case for celebration. Commemoration - yes. Celebration - no."

The Jack The Ripper flew 44 missions over Germany before being shot down near Munich in 1943. One of the crew died. The rest were taken prisoner.

Mr Meikus said: "I think she was the last plane we lost. It went down in late '43 over Munich. One of the crew - I think it was the flight engineer - refused to bale out and was killed. The others baled out and were taken prisoner and later returned to America."


http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_776049.html

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

Ill not comment accept to say...naming an aircraft Memphis Belle is an educated choice..

Naming one that may stand next to it..Jack the Ripper..a multi murderer and rapist who committed grusome surgical barbaraties and committed his crimes in the country your operating from may not be quite a good idea...

But dont want to be accused of being a pc nutter.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

I think that also after '43 planes were shot down.

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Right - "a senior mechanic on one of the last American bombers to be shot down during the Second World War" is typical I guess...he probably ment the last of his squadron that year or something...totally out of context I"m guessing. They also seemed to be trying to imply that he was on a bomber as opposed to working on one, but that's just my opinion.

Anything else?

[ 02. May 2003, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Doc Raider ]

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Living History at http://oldreliable9_47.tripod.com

He might mean it was the last plane on which he worked as crew chief.
Found a web site on the plane though [img]smile.gif[/img]
http://www.91stbombgroup.com/jacktheripper.html

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

[ 02. May 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: redcoat ]

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

Well I don't like the implication that he was part of the air crew. The article makes it sound like he flew on missions etc but he was ground crew. The 44 missions thing sounds odd, surley 44 missions would have been almost 2 tours, but Memphis Bell was supposed to have been the first bomber to finish a tour. Am I close?

EDIT:
I just checked the site and noticed, Jack the Ripper flew 25 missions in 1943, there is no mention of the aircraft being downed that year or flying any more missions. Am I close?

[ 02. May 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Stefan ]

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Well, you all have it; I was kinda astonished as I read this article. It is very poorly written in my opinion and seems to suggest more than give facts. Indeed; I understood he was in the last plane to go down during WW2. And this was supposed to have happened in 1943. The article didn't even mention the BG! As if everyone is supposed to know that the 91st BG was stationed at Bassinbourn. Or is that just me talking?

Indeed MANY more a/c went down after Jack The Ripper...All the way to May 1945.

And than the suggestion he was "on" a bomber. Maybe that was slang for the groundcrew; Being ' on' a bomber, or being detailed to one. This is not what the article makes clear though.

As to the 44 missions. In those days they were supposed to fly 25, later 30 and 35 as the threat of the Luftwaffe decreased (and the need for crews increased). Maybe they meant that the plane came back from 44 missions that Mr. Meikus worked on her....

But again, the story doesn't say...

So I am not the only one who found some holes to shoot into this story. All in all it shows the importance of "writing Understandingly" (a freely translated part of the circviculum of learning to write in Holland)

poor Mr. Meikus, he deserves a better piece....

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

I wonder if it completed it's missions in (19)44 and the reporter misunderstood? Guess we'll never know.

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Living History at http://oldreliable9_47.tripod.com

Stevin, the thing is that the bomber had flown 25 missions in 1943 (Novermber) when the crew went home, I doubt that they would have managed to find a replacement crew before 1944 and I very much doubt they would have got in 39 more missions in the two months. The other thing is that Jack the Ripper apparently was used as a training aircraft later on.

I agree with you though, the poor quality of the wiriting is less than these men deserve.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

I'm afraid that my wife has become used to me reading something about WWII in the general press and shouting ' This is a load of b*ll*cks! '

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Another classic in today's 'Daily Telegraph' ( a respected newspaper that has John Keegan as Defence Editor...). An interview with one of Blair's foreign policy advisers, byline from a young lady reporter who gushes ; -

'...he feels that the world situation is as dangerous as the first half of the 20th Century, when thousands were killed in two world wars...'

Maybe it's a typo but come on - thousands !? You'd think they'd try ....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Also note that according to what you have written in the initial post that this gentleman is living in England not the US. Which country is he a citizen of?

Why does that matter?

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

for petes'sake, if mr meikus said he did it, he did it............what's the difference now, anyway...........at least he was there.............

And beyond, might I add. Aircraft were lost over Japan as well.

Calm down mate, we aren't criticising Mr Meikus, just what some journalist has written about him.

Why does that matter? </font>[/quote]

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Semper Fi,
Texas Fred

Why does that matter? </font>[/quote]I would ask you the same question.... :-})

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Semper Fi,
Texas Fred

IMHO, the guy fought a war, he can be a citizen of whatever bloody country he wants. He's EARNED it!
Regards,
Gordon

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Regards,

Gordon
History Vault Bookshop
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The last American Bomber shot down (over Europe) in the Second World war was the 'Black Cat', a B-24 shot down over Regensburg, Germany in April 1945.